Reflecting on December 26th, 1990!

[Alluring]

AbdiWahab,

You are older than everyone here, you should know SOME historical material. Siad Barre (AUN) did walk away from Mogadishu, and asked KINDLY that the USC not destroy Mogadishu, but they did.

Stop trying to make up your OWN history.

[Voltage]

Seriously? There was no clan ideology behind the MSB atrocities? I fail to see how a grown-up man who wants to "reflect" about the sad failure of Somalia can make such a hallow assertion.

The same way you informed me your real uncle was the long head of the government's NSS security apparatus. Hypocrisy?

[muslim-man]

Wow you learn new things everyday! So nuur Cade the man dubbed the saviour of the hawiye from Abdullahi yusuf's reign of terror in hawiye lands is the man that ordered the execution of the clerics?

[Twisted_Logic]

Vagrants and street urchins banded together in ragtag rebel army where clan fission led to the disintegration of the Somali national army resulted in the most embarrassing and shocking social and political retardation of any state and society in modern Human history.

I realized most of these people who start rebel groups or even religious groups are either wanted individuals or criminals. That explains their suicidal mentality and greed. These men know they are hunted individuals who'll never have freedom, so what do they do? They turn their own personal war in to a national desire. By masquarading themselves as either clan/nationalist/religious saviors.

Good examples are the leadership of Alshabaab, Al-Qaeda & the Taliban. They are all marked men, they know this, they then hide behind Islam to cause destruction. Employing suicide bombings & whatever it takes, they have nothing to lose while you have everything to live for. They're masterminds of deception & prey on the weak.

Same thing with the USC & SNM leadership, they turned their own personal war in to a national one, by preying on clan hostilities.

Saxib, I have family members who were in the USC. They were not cowards nor opportunists. Even when MSB was rounding up and killing his opponents, some of them stood up in front of him and told him that justice will be done.

It was MSB's refusal to step-down and use of heavy-handed tactics against his opponents that took Somalia to a point of no-return

[AbdiWahab252]

Vagrants and street urchins banded together in ragtag rebel army where clan fission led to the disintegration of the Somali national army resulted in the most embarrassing and shocking social and political retardation of any state and society in modern Human history.

I realized most of these people who start rebel groups or even religious groups are either wanted individuals or criminals. That explains their suicidal mentality and greed. These men know they are hunted individuals who'll never have freedom, so what do they do? They turn their own personal war in to a national desire. By masquarading themselves as either clan/nationalist/religious saviors.

Good examples are the leadership of Alshabaab, Al-Qaeda & the Taliban. They are all marked men, they know this, they then hide behind Islam to cause destruction. Employing suicide bombings & whatever it takes, they have nothing to lose while you have everything to live for. They're masterminds of deception & prey on the weak.

Same thing with the USC & SNM leadership, they turned their own personal war in to a national one, by preying on clan hostilities.

Koronto,

That perhaps is the most ridiculous assertion you have made so far in this thread. You want us to believe there were no reasons, no massacres that prompted the necessary use of armed force to depose MSB ?

[Twisted_Logic]

Seriously? There was no clan ideology behind the MSB atrocities? I fail to see how a grown-up man who wants to "reflect" about the sad failure of Somalia can make such a hallow assertion.

The same way you informed me your real uncle was the long head of the government's NSS security apparatus. Hypocrisy?

The orders came from MSB himself. Same way, some Marehan commanders knowingly sold their weapons to the USC knowing it will be used to topple their boss.

[Koronto77]

Its easy to blame all the injustices of the MSB administration on one individual and one clan, but the fact of the matter is, it was a collective government & its policies reflected that of a national government. Contrary to people's claims that MSB was somehow a raving lunatic who spent day & night plotting the systemic injustices of certain clans. One man can not possibly be responsible for the policies of a whole government.

[Alluring]

Twisted,

Why are you so emotional? Did you have flashbacks as a child of you selling fruits on streets or something?

[Twisted_Logic]

Its easy to blame all the injustices of the MSB administration on one individual and one clan, but the fact of the matter is, it was a collective government & its policies reflected that of a national government. Contrary to people's claims that MSB was somehow a raving lunatic who spent day & night plotting the systemic injustices of certain clans. One man can not possibly be responsible for the policies of a whole government.

Of course. But the leadership of this "government" was overwhelming manned by a single clan. M.O.D, anyone?

[Voltage]

Vagrants and street urchins banded together in ragtag rebel army where clan fission led to the disintegration of the Somali national army resulted in the most embarrassing and shocking social and political retardation of any state and society in modern Human history.

I realized most of these people who start rebel groups or even religious groups are either wanted individuals or criminals. That explains their suicidal mentality and greed. These men know they are hunted individuals who'll never have freedom, so what do they do? They turn their own personal war in to a national desire. By masquarading themselves as either clan/nationalist/religious saviors.

Good examples are the leadership of Alshabaab, Al-Qaeda & the Taliban. They are all marked men, they know this, they then hide behind Islam to cause destruction. Employing suicide bombings & whatever it takes, they have nothing to lose while you have everything to live for. They're masterminds of deception & prey on the weak.

Same thing with the USC & SNM leadership, they turned their own personal war in to a national one, by preying on clan hostilities.

Adding to this point, can you please enquire as to why a legitimate national opposition never rose and each one of Somalia's rebels had tribal ambitions masking a personal war of personalities banking on riding on the helm of clan hostilities.

SNM anyone? Isaaq clan.

SSDF anyone? Majeerteen clan.

USC anyone? Hawiye clan?

If legitimate concerns and legitimate national opposition movement existed, why the fracturing of the opposition itself into tribal composition unless the tribal structure of Somalia itself was being manipulated by few opportunistic intellectually retarded slime balls intent on seizing power for personal aim and ambition?

It is amazing how easily the socially and political retarded nature of today's Somali state could have been predicted by the socially and political retarded nature of its rebel movements.

[Twisted_Logic]

Vagrants and street urchins banded together in ragtag rebel army where clan fission led to the disintegration of the Somali national army resulted in the most embarrassing and shocking social and political retardation of any state and society in modern Human history.

I realized most of these people who start rebel groups or even religious groups are either wanted individuals or criminals. That explains their suicidal mentality and greed. These men know they are hunted individuals who'll never have freedom, so what do they do? They turn their own personal war in to a national desire. By masquarading themselves as either clan/nationalist/religious saviors.

Good examples are the leadership of Alshabaab, Al-Qaeda & the Taliban. They are all marked men, they know this, they then hide behind Islam to cause destruction. Employing suicide bombings & whatever it takes, they have nothing to lose while you have everything to live for. They're masterminds of deception & prey on the weak.

Same thing with the USC & SNM leadership, they turned their own personal war in to a national one, by preying on clan hostilities.

Adding to this point, can you please enquire as to why a legitimate national opposition never rose and each one of Somalia's rebels had tribal ambitions masking a personal war of personalities banking on riding on the helm of clan hostilities.

SNM anyone? Isaaq clan.

SSDF anyone? Majeerteen clan.

USC anyone? Hawiye clan?

If legitimate concerns and legitimate national opposition movement existed, why the fracturing of the opposition itself into tribal composition unless the tribal structure of Somalia itself was being manipulated by few opportunistic intellectually retarded slime balls intent on seizing power for personal aim and ambition?

It is amazing how easily the socially and political retarded nature of today's Somali state could have been predicted by the socially and political retarded nature of its rebel movements.

What a simpleton.

Because these rebel groups were fighting against a Marehan, Ogadeen and Dhulbhante Government. You have to fight fire with fire

[Xamud.]

Twisted,

Why are you so emotional? Did you have flashbacks as a child of you selling fruits on streets or something?

[Voltage]

I realized most of these people who start rebel groups or even religious groups are either wanted individuals or criminals. That explains their suicidal mentality and greed. These men know they are hunted individuals who'll never have freedom, so what do they do? They turn their own personal war in to a national desire. By masquarading themselves as either clan/nationalist/religious saviors.

Good examples are the leadership of Alshabaab, Al-Qaeda & the Taliban. They are all marked men, they know this, they then hide behind Islam to cause destruction. Employing suicide bombings & whatever it takes, they have nothing to lose while you have everything to live for. They're masterminds of deception & prey on the weak.

Same thing with the USC & SNM leadership, they turned their own personal war in to a national one, by preying on clan hostilities.

Adding to this point, can you please enquire as to why a legitimate national opposition never rose and each one of Somalia's rebels had tribal ambitions masking a personal war of personalities banking on riding on the helm of clan hostilities.

SNM anyone? Isaaq clan.

SSDF anyone? Majeerteen clan.

USC anyone? Hawiye clan?

If legitimate concerns and legitimate national opposition movement existed, why the fracturing of the opposition itself into tribal composition unless the tribal structure of Somalia itself was being manipulated by few opportunistic intellectually retarded slime balls intent on seizing power for personal aim and ambition?

It is amazing how easily the socially and political retarded nature of today's Somali state could have been predicted by the socially and political retarded nature of its rebel movements.

What a simpleton.

Because these rebel groups were fighting against a Marehan, Ogadeen and Dhulbhante Government. You have to fight fire with fire

There was not a Marehan government, an Ogaden government, and a Dhulbahante government. Even if we were to assume in the validity of the MOD charge, it was a single government housing all those elements. In essence a single entity unless you are now going to argue there were three governments and presidents in the said Somali republic.

Why then the need for each tribe relying on its rebel group when the opposition to the single entity should have been a single opposition of credible national legitimacy that could have called upon the Somali people in the face of what they considered an oppressive government?

Because it was not a credible national legitimate opposition but few personalities such as Abdullahi Yusuf, Caydiid, etc intent on manipulating Somalia's tribal composition not to establish a legitimate opposition to an existing Somali government but to provide the wheels for a personal ambition and desire of power themselves.

Why else did Caydiid fracture the USC in Mustaxiil and declare the faction in Italy headed by Jimcaale persona non grata?

You are the simpleton.

I repeat again, it is amazing how easily the socially and politically retarded nature of today's Somali state could have been predicted by the socially and political retarded nature of its rebel movements.

[Oxidant]

Vagrants and street urchins banded together in ragtag rebel army where clan fission led to the disintegration of the Somali national army resulted in the most embarrassing and shocking social and political retardation of any state and society in modern Human history.

I realized most of these people who start rebel groups or even religious groups are either wanted individuals or criminals. That explains their suicidal mentality and greed. These men know they are hunted individuals who'll never have freedom, so what do they do? They turn their own personal war in to a national desire. By masquarading themselves as either clan/nationalist/religious saviors.

Good examples are the leadership of Alshabaab, Al-Qaeda & the Taliban. They are all marked men, they know this, they then hide behind Islam to cause destruction. Employing suicide bombings & whatever it takes, they have nothing to lose while you have everything to live for. They're masterminds of deception & prey on the weak.

Same thing with the USC & SNM leadership, they turned their own personal war in to a national one, by preying on clan hostilities.

Adding to this point, can you please enquire as to why a legitimate national opposition never rose and each one of Somalia's rebels had tribal ambitions masking a personal war of personalities banking on riding on the helm of clan hostilities.

SNM anyone? Isaaq clan.

SSDF anyone? Majeerteen clan.

USC anyone? Hawiye clan?

If legitimate concerns and legitimate national opposition movement existed, why the fracturing of the opposition itself into tribal composition unless the tribal structure of Somalia itself was being manipulated by few opportunistic intellectually retarded slime balls intent on seizing power for personal aim and ambition?

It is amazing how easily the socially and political retarded nature of today's Somali state could have been predicted by the socially and political retarded nature of its rebel movements.

Great post, Voltage

[Oxidant]

AbdiWahab,

You are older than everyone here, you should know SOME historical material. Siad Barre (AUN) did walk away from Mogadishu, and asked KINDLY that the USC not destroy Mogadishu, but they did.

Stop trying to make up your OWN history.

I like AbdiWahab, but he lied. Siyad Barre did ask USC not to destroy Mogadishu and he was willingly to walk away, but they never listened. Same thing with the SNM. He allowed them to come back to Somaliland peacefully, but they betrayed him and committed killing people based on clan.

Siyad Barre is used as a scapegoat to justify what happen after him