Dumbass Egyptians

[Navy9]

Oh, never mind, i forgot your are an American

[ArcadeFire]

It's annoying because you make it seem as though Somalia didn't exist before 1960. We are people who have existed for just as long as the ancient Egyptians so I don't see where this lack of respect for your own history comes from. We didn't have the same form of governance as you do now in America; a foreign system of government was imposed on a people that did not want nor ask for a democracy. All which happened was inevitable. Moreover if you look back at the history of every modern country you will find an age of lawlessness and internal conflict. In Somalia most of that is actually only limited to Mogadishu and even then it's only been 20 years of relatively low levels of conflict, compared to say the American civil war. We've also had many attempts at reconciliation, granted they have been unsuccessful because of selfish individualistic reasons, nevertheless the will is there in the people, and for you to belittle the attempts, the desire and the hope of the people, our people, is, put very very mildly, annoying.

Dude needs to learn the difference between a nation and a state!

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

It's annoying because you make it seem as though Somalia didn't exist before 1960. We are people who have existed for just as long as the ancient Egyptians so I don't see where this lack of respect for your own history comes from. We didn't have the same form of governance as you do now in America; a foreign system of government was imposed on a people that did not want nor ask for a democracy. All which happened was inevitable. Moreover if you look back at the history of every modern country you will find an age of lawlessness and internal conflict. In Somalia most of that is actually only limited to Mogadishu and even then it's only been 20 years of relatively low levels of conflict, compared to say the American civil war. We've also had many attempts at reconciliation, granted they have been unsuccessful because of selfish individualistic reasons, nevertheless the will is there in the people, and for you to belittle the attempts, the desire and the hope of the people, our people, is, put very very mildly, annoying.

[Enemy_Of_Mad_Mullah]

It's annoying because you make it seem as though Somalia didn't exist before 1960. We are people who have existed for just as long as the ancient Egyptians so I don't see where this lack of respect for your own history comes from. We didn't have the same form of governance as you do now in America; a foreign system of government was imposed on a people that did not want nor ask for a democracy. All which happened was inevitable. Moreover if you look back at the history of every modern country you will find an age of lawlessness and internal conflict. In Somalia most of that is actually only limited to Mogadishu and even then it's only been 20 years of relatively low levels of conflict, compared to say the American civil war. We've also had many attempts at reconciliation, granted they have been unsuccessful because of selfish individualistic reasons, nevertheless the will is there in the people, and for you to belittle the attempts, the desire and the hope of the people, our people, is, put very very mildly, annoying.

[FAH1223]

It's annoying because you make it seem as though Somalia didn't exist before 1960. We are people who have existed for just as long as the ancient Egyptians so I don't see where this lack of respect for your own history comes from. We didn't have the same form of governance as you do now in America; a foreign system of government was imposed on a people that did not want nor ask for a democracy. All which happened was inevitable. Moreover if you look back at the history of every modern country you will find an age of lawlessness and internal conflict. In Somalia most of that is actually only limited to Mogadishu and even then it's only been 20 years of relatively low levels of conflict, compared to say the American civil war. We've also had many attempts at reconciliation, granted they have been unsuccessful because of selfish individualistic reasons, nevertheless the will is there in the people, and for you to belittle the attempts, the desire and the hope of the people, our people, is, put very very mildly, annoying.

Somalia DIDN'T exist before 1960. Somali people only have lived in THEIR clan fiefdoms forever. There was no interaction between clans and when there was, there were rivalries that to this day still stand.

Just look at the current state of Somalia. How many "Presidents" or "Amirs" can one land posses?

Look at the period before any Europeans, there were sultanates based on CLAN not on any Pan Somali ideology. Democracy may have been imposed but the idea of Pan Somalism was never in the history of the Somali people.

Sayid Muhammad wasnt a Pan Somali figure, he was an anti colonial.

Ahmed Gurey was a leader that united Muslims against the Ethio empire among other characters. Sure, a lot of his men were Somali but the ideology wasn't Pan Somalism.

Somali national identity existed for roughly a generation and really has no roots in our history.

I'm just saying facts and facts are not annoying.

[Enemy_Of_Mad_Mullah]

There was no interaction between clans and when there was

wallahi u failed right there...clans who fought each other made peace and married the other tribes women

[FAH1223]

There was no interaction between clans and when there was

wallahi u failed right there...clans who fought each other made peace and married the other tribes women

Between North and South there was really none

I'm on my phone typing

But after independence it was made clear.

And see? Clans fighting... Same shid, different era!

In many ways, the way Somalia is today's the way it was before colonialism

[kadarre]

Focking Americans.

[SummerRain]

I agree with my fellow American here.

[ArcadeFire]

There was no interaction between clans and when there was

wallahi u failed right there...clans who fought each other made peace and married the other tribes women

Between North and South there was really none

I'm on my phone typing

But after independence it was made clear.

And see? Clans fighting... Same shid, different era!

In many ways, the way Somalia is today's the way it was before colonialism

There was no such thing as North/South clans before colonialism, clans migrated constantly, so you're wrong there. First you said Somali's never knew they were a nation before 1960, obviously wrong we were a nation for longer than a few decades, now you're saying Somalia only came to existence in 1960, no sh.t Sherlock

Sayyid Mohammed not a Pan-Somali?, the man who joined forces with any clan in all Somali lands that sought to have Somali's rule themselves, no he was just anti-colonialist

[FAH1223]

Sayid Muhammad made poems against other clans, he killed many Somalis (even those close to him)...

was he going around like the first three Presidents of Somalia preaching some kind of Pan-Somali ideology? NO.

Pan Somali sentiment started in the latter stages of colonialism, especially when the British occupied all of Somali territory (save the French part).

And it permanently died after the failure of the Ogaden war

[ArcadeFire]

Sayid Muhammad made poems against other clans, he killed many Somalis (even those close to him)...
So? He insulted clans that refused to join his patriotic struggle.The fact that he attacked members of his own clan should prove his Pan-Somali credentials.
was he going around like the first three Presidents of Somalia preaching some kind of Pan-Somali ideology? NO.
He was fighting for it.
Pan Somali sentiment started in the latter stages of colonialism, especially when the British occupied all of Somali territory (save the French part).
See above
And it permanently died after the failure of the Ogaden war
Whatever Mystic Meg

[CismanMaxamud1]

No need to destroy Ancient artifacts when protesting against your country government

Somalis destroyed not only their country but massacred their own people, we have no right to talk about anyone else

[BlackVelvet]

Somalia DIDN'T exist before 1960. Somali people only have lived in THEIR clan fiefdoms forever. There was no interaction between clans and when there was, there were rivalries that to this day still stand.

Just look at the current state of Somalia. How many "Presidents" or "Amirs" can one land posses?

Look at the period before any Europeans, there were sultanates based on CLAN not on any Pan Somali ideology. Democracy may have been imposed but the idea of Pan Somalism was never in the history of the Somali people.

Sayid Muhammad wasnt a Pan Somali figure, he was an anti colonial.

Ahmed Gurey was a leader that united Muslims against the Ethio empire among other characters. Sure, a lot of his men were Somali but the ideology wasn't Pan Somalism.

Somali national identity existed for roughly a generation and really has no roots in our history.

I'm just saying facts and facts are not annoying.

It’s not the facts which are annoying, it’s how you only use half the numbers and a slice of the history to justify your own predetermined conclusion.

Somalia is the land that belongs to the Somalis and in that sense, the land has always existed. The Nation and its borders however were created by the colonials and therefore it is not an intrinsic ideal that Somalis have come to create on their own. As such these are facts that you need to take into consideration when making judgements about Somalia’s future.

You’ve said these things far too often and for far too long that you have actually started to believe yourself. “Zoomalis” and “Zoomalia” Mr. American are a country and a people going through a phase in history which America, Britain and in fact every major developed country has been through. We’re tribal, that’s England 50 BC to Scotland only a few decades ago. They were sedentary and had a relatively small piece of land for a country, therefore they had a reason and invaders that were strong enough to form central bodies of governance. We’re nomads, with huge land and strong tribes with strong ties; we never had a reason to form a central government for the whole of Somalia. Nevertheless Somalis have always had a sense of pride when it comes to being Somali, without education and very low levels of literacy that is a strong step towards Nationalism. Furthermore Britain has had nearly 800 years to work towards perfecting the democracy they now enjoy, Somalia has had what, 50 years?

My point is, to understand the reason why Somalia is the way it is you need to take the situation now and place it in the bigger picture while taking into consideration our culture and our history. I know it sucks that we have a failed state, which is a fact, but acting out and making baseless assumptions about Somalia forever remaining in that state is wrong. I'm not saying it's going to take us thousands of years to get to where developed countries are at but what I'm saying is, if you're studying politics anyway and you're interested in pointing out where Somalis are going wrong anyway, you might as well focus your energy on comparing it to Malaysia or South Korea or India or any other developing country that might have gone through what we're going through and talk about ways how we could speed up the growing up process of our country. That would be a better use of your time and your mind and it would, most importantly, save you from a sucker punch from moi if I ever saw you in London

[Murax]

Black Velvet,


FAH is right. There is a big difference between the existance of a ethnic group and the existance of a Nation. Ofcourse Somalis existed for a long time but so what? What we're talking about here is nationhood and Somalia under one central authority only existed for 30 years 1960-1991. Prior to that there was no concept of Nationhood and it is why the colonizers had a very easy time taking control of Somalia, while they struggled in Ethiopia/Sudan, why? Because they had kingdoms, governance prior to the colonizers. Somalis were always a collection of nomadic tribes straddling 3 Countries, with each tribe staking out a territory and acting as independent States.



Egypt was a civilization, Abyssinia was a civilization, the Ottoman Empire was one, Yemen (Sheeba) was one, Somalia was not. Heck even Saudi Arabia had a huge headstart in terms of Governance, their leadership was there since WW1. This is why Somalis are even able to adapt so easily in foreign countries, because they do not have the same connection to their land other nations have. A Somali wherever he goes in His heart He is this clan or that clan, not really a Somali. Take for example though a Ethiopian, they may be Tigray, Oromo, Harari, etc. but they all believe in the concept of one Ethiopia. With Egypt there is a definitely a sense of duty, pride and love of the nation that Somalis do not have, and the jury is still out of they ever will. 20 years and running, everybody has every reason to be pessimistic that they will.