Somaliland and Somalia union conference of Somalinet

[juzme123]

for the last time .We Don't Negotiate with Terrorists!': snm Terrorist tugs ..any person
against Somali territorial integrity is a Terrorist.One-Clan secessionist Must be destroyed

Who is "we".

[SahanGalbeed]

Sahan, would the Somaliland people accept and take the responsibility of managing Somalia's affairs inorder to help the southerners while those who commited the attrocities are still being harbourd there.

I don't know to the first part of your question. Would Somaliland take responsibilty for managing the entire country formerly know as Somalia , I dunno ! Whatever they are doing is not working and hasn't been working since 1991 . I think they collectively need to recognise that first and either1/ join Somaliland or 2/let us officially go our seperate way.
In either case this is the flag --> . The non Somalilander Somalis either start afresh {we''ll show them how it's done ...to maybe ultimately handing them the keys one day } or let us continue on our journey without interfering every other month in our domestic affairs .

[SLJOOFAY]

for the last time .We Don't Negotiate with Terrorists!': snm Terrorist tugs ..any person
against Somali territorial integrity is a Terrorist.One-Clan secessionist Must be destroyed

This thread asks for a civilized discussion on the issues that devide the Somali people of Somaliland and those of Somalia, I have asked for people to put forward their opinions and answers for the questions surrounding this issue and your response is "Terrorist One-clan secessionist must be DESTROYED". I really hope for the SAKE of SOMALIA:som: that your type of attitude and intelectual level is a "one-off" rather than the norm.

Those of you who run around from thread to thread knocking Somalilands secession I have opened a whole thread to help understand ur opposition with an open mind, now let it all out.

[SahanGalbeed]

Now , I believe in order to solve the most complicated of problems one has to start with the simplest of premises.
The problem in Somalia is the political system they have or the lack thereof. Wether the president is Hawiye or Daarod or the prime minister Majerten or Marexan will not change anything . One shouldn't in the same token argue an Isaaq qualitatively difference for it wouldn't be as inclusive as we would want it to be
Therefore , in accordance with the wisdom and prudence that are inspiring me today , I call on all Somalis south of Las Anod to join Somaliland

We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."

peace I'm out .

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

I realy dont understand this obsession with Somaliland, when the real issue and problem is Somalia. The simple fact that people keep going on about Somaliand when instead all that attention should be directed at Somalia speaks volumes above all the lip service that is been paid to SOOMAALINIMO. Maybe if all the energy spend in why Somaliland is going seperate, is invested in Soomaalia and a viable form of government set up, then there should be a reason to talk about Somaliland and accordingly thing could be set in motion for talks of re-unification. But as things stand this is not the time nor is it prudent to interfere with the afairs of Soomaaliland as this will only serve to drive a wedge between brothers of the north and south.

Allaow dhawr

WTF Sahan ma vodkaad cabtey? Somaliland's sovereignty is non-negotiable and anyone who thinks they can undermine it will be met by Señor Kalashnikov .

[Cirwaaq]

The 1960 Union was intended for Dsons[Djbouti, Somalia, Ogadeen, NFD, Somaliland]. Djbouti desided to persue a different path, Ogadeen was and is still under occupation and so was NFD and the Kenya's made it clear in 1963 if the somalis do not wish to be part of Kenya then they must leave the land behind.

Somalia and Somaliland proceeded with the union in 1960 in the hope of acquiring the other 3 parts at a later date. The flaws emerged instantly when the MJ took the seat of the president and the also the prime minster. When the agreement was 1 state takes president and the other prime minister.

the other 3 lands saw the chaos and gaveup the dream of Dsons so Somaliland having realised they have been cheated and the dream of the 5 is a mere dream began the process of resurrecting their former state. All hell broke loose until 1991 when they were fortunate to escape finally.

Union for somaliland represents everything negative that occured between 1960 - 1991 and in 2011 they have experienced untold hate and negativity for seeking to protect their interests. Now if you could show me a Somalia that has stood on it's feet and a failed somaliland then i could aruge they need Somalia however this is not the case.

Anyone who wishes to see a New union will have to accept the mistakes of the past and allow for reparations and acceptance of the shortfalls of the rushed 1960 union. Such a person with sincerity would allow for that erraneous Union to be dissolved and work towards the creation of a Fresh Union regardless of the obstacles he may face.

Asking Somaliland to honor the union of 1960 is asking a state to surrender it's sovereignty for the sake of the wishes of another state that has already betrayed it and abused the good will of the citizens, attempted extermination and state wide erradication of all life and property.

It is the Delusions of few that they will ever see the Ressurection of the 1960 union, instead what i suggest to anyone that wishes to form another union is they addopt the flag and constitution and declare themselves a protectorate of somaliland and begin singing "Ha Dhicin" for there is no point stressing yourself over a dead useless Donkey of a Union.

The possibility of the realisation of another Union be it of Somalia and Somaliland or be it all 5 Dsons it begins with accepting a mistake was made in 1960 and to accept the Independent and sovereign state of Somaliland as an Equal to Somalia not a Property of Somalia and believe that is where the problem lies. It is no longer about Faqash, because the Faqash have many businesses in Hargiesa and all over Somaliland, it is simply about the Brused Pride following the 1960 Union when Somaliland state was given the status of a mere gobol within Somalia.

Prior to another Union you will have to find a way to accpet the indepedence of Somaliland as it was in 1960 anything short of that and you can take responsibility and accountability if another Union never happens in out life time. We will all die stateless as adoptees of other states.

[quark]

btw guys, am laughing at someone not this good topic

[Username1]

Somalia needs Isaaqs not Isaaq needing Somalia. You only have to to look on the facts on the ground to see this. They have peace in all their regions the only areas of conflict being the non-Isaaq regions. They have healthy democracy which not perfect but far exceeds most if not all African countries. There business are some of the largest and most well known in all Somalia. The only thing Somali could offer them is international legitimacy, which funnily enough they gave up when they joined the union. I think the biggest mistake MSB made was he underestimated this group and that lead to his downfall and the implosion of the state. For Somalia to get back to the path of greatness and brotherhood that's been lost the Isaaqs are integral part and without them Somalia will be stuck unable to move, whilst the Isaaq put their creativity and ingenuity on something amazing but never recognised.

[Cirwaaq]

User there isn't anything genetically different enough between different clans to give a particular clan an advantage of any form. Where we vary is our political ambitions. The difference between the clans can be exploited and is in all somali states in the horn.

Djbouti has found ways to unite somali and afar.
Ogadeen clans are used to silence each other.
Somaliland's divisions are exploited during elections.
NFD the Kenyans manage the zone in a resident vs migrant split
Somalia: This is the most Diverse after Ogadeen. Greedy Diaspora Failures fuel the clan divide to secure themselves seats and a monthly pay cheque.

Campaign slogs comparison:

Sland : Recognition and statehood(75% Core loyalty and buy into campaign)

Som: Preservation of Union of 2 (Republic of Somalia)(x% core loyalty and unknown buy into campaign) Why would it not fail? it has no roots on the ground. The people want peace as their primary need, 20 years they have survived without government and for 20years more they will continue without one. attempting to gain the local population as promoters of the Union cause will not sell. As soon as the local population are given a voice i assure you more then 50% do not care or remember the need of any union. They prefer Peace and Shabab gained their support because of it.

[hargaysaay]

to user name brother what you told is absolutely right northern people of somalia the specialy samaron ciise and isaaq are the only people that can lead somalia to unity and i think a reconcilition confrence in the blessed city o hargeysa would be thousand times more fruit full then all confrences held for the somali people crisis


and to juzme bro if somlailand sseccedes from the rest of te somali nation dont you know that it is the end of the great somali name dignity and value dont you know that all somalis including you would be volnurable against 500 year old foe namely ethiopia it is not about what you can provide them or vice versa its about a greater principal its about making sure that the lifes of the somali mujahidins that died in axmed guray wars, 1964, 1977 ,2007, was not a waste

[juzme123]

and to juzme bro if somlailand sseccedes from the rest of te somali nation dont you know that it is the end of the great somali name dignity and value dont you know that all somalis including you would be volnurable against 500 year old foe namely ethiopia it is not about what you can provide them or vice versa its about a greater principal its about making sure that the lifes of the somali mujahidins that died in axmed guray wars, 1964, 1977 ,2007, was not a waste

No offense, but that is complete and utter non-sense sxb. Somaliland gaining recognition will not be "the end of the great somali name dignity and value". You are talking as if Somalia now is a piece of heaven on earth, as if, despite everything that has happened in the past 20+ years, the "great somali name" has any value at all on the world stage. For 20 years, in contrast to Somalia, Somaliland has held up its share of the bargain. It has been relatively peaceful, stable and it is now democratic. On the other hand Somalia is the synonym for anarchy, destruction and choas.

Somaliland = peace, development, stability, democracy, accountable leaders etc.

Somalia = war, choas, anarchy, warlords, piracy, terrorists, countless Transitional governments, AMISOM etc.

So don't come here and talk as if Somaliland is doing any damage to the Somali name when it is in fact upholding and salvaging it, when it is host to hundreds of thoussands of Somali refugees, whom despite its restricted budget it attempts to help.

As for vulnerability, I doubt Somalia could get any more vulnerable than it is and has been for the past 20 years and it would be dishonest to portray Somaliland independence as if it would add to this in any way. These days Somalia is like a field, Ethiopia, Kenya, AMISOM, U.S can do anything they like. hell, they walk in and out as they please, when they please, doing what they please.

This is in many ways because of the leaders of Somalia (including puntland). Whether it'd be AY & co. inviting the Amxaaro to kill Somalis, Corrupt and unaccountable symbolic leaders and members of countless past transitional government, the selfishness and hypocracy of Puntland leadership, the mindless groups like Al-shabaab who know only to fight or the countless warlords who held on to their own fiefdoms. Somaliland has not contributed to this choas and rather than thanking Somaliland for this, people call ti 'Somalidiid' because Somaliland refuses to take part in inflicting and being inflicted with harm in the madness that has become the system of Somalia. It is people who (knowlingly or unknowingly) want Somaliland to become embroiled in this web of anarchy who relentlessly attack Somaliland. Let me make it explicitly clear that Somaliland is not the one who has failed this union but Somalia.

For those who call themselves patriots. There are very few, if any, patriots of Somalia on Snet. If they were truly patriotic you would devote the time that you devote to slandering, attacking and deligitimising Somaliland into looking for a solution for Somalia. If they were truly patriotic they would be glad that Somaliland, despite the political differences, whether part of Somalia or not, is peaceful, democratic and developing and that in many aspects it is all that they would like Somalia to be, that Somaliland has succeeded where Somalia has failed.

Then there are the Somali mujahids you speak of. For Somaliland, Manshallah, Alxamdulillah, its mujahids' blood, sweat, lives and effort have not gone wasted. Today Somaliland is independent, its people live in peace, its children go to school, it has built a respectful image for itself, it is lead from Hargeisa the capital of somaliland not some offices in New York, Addis Abbaba or Nairobi, its leaders are accountable to the people. Though it still has a long way to go in terms of development, at least it is moving. Amoung and outside Somalis, the Somaliland name has "dignity and value". I don't think the same could be said for Somalia. As for those mujahids aspirations for a Somaliweyn, let me make it explicitly clear that Somaliland is not the one who has failed this union but, even up untill this day, Somalia. The failure of Somaliweyn is all on Somalia

It is interesting to look at what kind of Somalieyn Somalis from Somalia are proposing. Unless it is one in which Somalia is peaceful, all Somalis are equal and have equal political power, I doubt the other Somalis would like to "join" as be the case now with Somaliland, Djibouti certainly (and possibly the others). Not one in which they are seen as just maamul goboleeds of an extended Somalia. The name is Somaliweyn, not the new colonies of Somalia. Somalis from Somalia have to get rid of this notion that somehow, they are more Somali and thus have a greater right to lead the Somaliweyn project than other Somalis.

The denial of history. Taariikh miyaa la dafiri karaa ? Somaliland and Somalia joined as two independet entities to form the Somali Republic. It is very disrespectful to portray Somaliland as just another of the recently made "maamul goboleed" when Somaliland + Somalia (Puntland, galmudug, X & X + others) = the Somali Republic; when Somaliland is one of the five, whilst Somalia is another one of the five nations meant to make up Somaliweyn. Even the flag that some of you sport, is testament to the place that Somaliland, it being represented on the flag as one of the five points, holds in Somali history and past/current politics and the respect it deserves.

[gurey25]

juzem1 all that typing is for nothing..
Qabiil pride is before logic and reason...

even if he is starving to death or is sinking in quicksand he will refuse help and bite the hand that feeds him, becuase of misplaced qabiil pride.

[juzme123]

juzem1 all that typing is for nothing..

no worries, I type fast

[Cirwaaq]

juzem1 all that typing is for nothing..

no worries, I type fast

A+ Summary of events after the fact.

- Bro what is most strange is ask any Unionist what will be the power sharing model of the united state if another Union has a good chance of occuring.

- Let us say Somaliland comes to meet us on the table Will the meeting be about the 1960 Union or a New Union is required?

- What is Puntland's position in a ressurection of the 1960 Union where Somalia(Pland, Gmudug, X&X, Green, Wad&waax, Azkinashia, Shababistan, Bareland, ASWJia, Hiraanland, Banaadiria,,, etc) will all share 50% of power and resources???

- 4.5 System does not represent 1960 ~union so how the hell can they claim to be preserving the 1960 union?

According to the Union of 1960 the current TFG:

Somalia with 50% power share would currently have 275 Mps
Somaliland with 50% power share275 Mps

If Somaliland came back to play Weyn politics who in their right mind is willing to allocate 50% mps and 1 of the top two seats, also when one gets Speaker of the house, the other gets head of all armed forces

Let me get this straight My people are fighting for a union which equally divides everything with Somaliland when we have three times the population, twice the land area, 4 times the coast lines, and the only two rivers that flow all year around.

Is it only me that thinks my people are chasing their own down fall once again?

[SahanGalbeed]

I realy dont understand this obsession with Somaliland, when the real issue and problem is Somalia. The simple fact that people keep going on about Somaliand when instead all that attention should be directed at Somalia speaks volumes above all the lip service that is been paid to SOOMAALINIMO. Maybe if all the energy spend in why Somaliland is going seperate, is invested in Soomaalia and a viable form of government set up, then there should be a reason to talk about Somaliland and accordingly thing could be set in motion for talks of re-unification. But as things stand this is not the time nor is it prudent to interfere with the afairs of Soomaaliland as this will only serve to drive a wedge between brothers of the north and south.

Allaow dhawr

WTF Sahan ma vodkaad cabtey? Somaliland's sovereignty is non-negotiable and anyone who thinks they can undermine it will be met by Señor Kalashnikov .

, de ma aniga wax kale idhi ? What if they all say we want to be part of Somaliland , what would you do ?
I agree with juzme in a certain sense . In the union of the former british Somaliland and the Italian Somaliland to form Somalia , we all know which entity failed us . Now what if some reasonable southern somali would say "I'm well aware of it and I am taking responsibility for it , but let's try it once again in a different configuration this time and all unite under your banner , Somaliland ."
What would you do or say ?