James Dahl, please do get in!

[Mckuus]

DP

[bareento]

I came to the same conclusion concerning oromos;
FYI its Hawiye who are not oromos , but Hawiya is oromo they are the sons of Baabilee Qalloo

B.

[Mckuus]

Strangely the confederation system still exists amongst the Afar, though I believe that the Afar became Muslims after the Somali did.

While rather controversial to talk about, the major clans in Somalia may have began as confederations before gradually changing to the Arab style clan system, though that's basically an "argument in a can", as soon as you open it, expect arguments

Future complete Y-Chromosome scans will tell, when sub-clades can be established past E-V32. I am sure the Harti have their own SNP, the Hawiye have their own SNP, and the Dir have their own SNP.

[bareento]

Mckuus clans are not as homogenous as u believe

B.

[James Dahl]

The thing is we don't really understand early Somali history very well, we can interpret a handful of facts any number of ways, but really we should be focusing on getting more facts, not re-interpreting the same facts. More archaeology, examination of ruins and translation of ancient inscriptions needs to be done if we're ever going to hope to understand early Somali history.

[gurey25]

amongst somalis there will be homogeneous clans within the larger clan structure,

future genetic detailed studies will probably reveal this and somalis should not be surprised or offended,
the clan structure was not as rigid as we think and was very open in the past with allot of clans being adopted ..

There is also the phenomena of religious heritage with followers of a religious leader and their families coalescing into a clan within a couple of hundreds years of the religous leader/founders death..

This has happened all over the world to several other people and it would not be strange to discover this amongst somalis and others in the horn as well..

[bareento]

James I think its too late!
No self respecting somali will ever do some research showing he is a poor negro
every clan invented some arab sheekh as lord protector or ancestors!
comng back on this accepted and "certified' history will ignite an indescriptible fury, dellusion even REVOLUTION

I am really eager to know wat was the early relation between muslim somalis and waaqist somali?
In ancient times camel was taboo for oromos, any oromo clan who started keeping camels were chased out, wat became of these clans?

I thnk unfortunately we wont have answer for these and many other questions.

Thats where my Bantu theory comes in

B.

[Mckuus]

amongst somalis there will be homogeneous clans within the larger clan structure,

future genetic detailed studies will probably reveal this and somalis should not be surprised or offended,
the clan structure was not as rigid as we think and was very open in the past with allot of clans being adopted ..

There is also the phenomena of religious heritage with followers of a religious leader and their families coalescing into a clan within a couple of hundreds years of the religous leader/founders death..

This has happened all over the world to several other people and it would not be strange to discover this amongst somalis and others in the horn as well..

77% of Somalis have a common paternal ancestor around 2,000 years ago. Which is fairly recent, so it doesn't really matter whether there has been reshuffling of linages the past 500 year...because they eventually lead to the same person.

[gurey25]

bareento i advise you to at least change the name bantu is so inaccurate it will eliminate whatever message you are trying to convey.
use native black african instead..

now about the mythical arab shiekhs you are refering to, they existed its confirmed by historic sources, non somali sources..

I explained how its possible for somali clans to associate themselves to those arab shiekhs...
its a normal and common phenomena and has happened all over the world...

[kadarre]

amongst somalis there will be homogeneous clans within the larger clan structure,

future genetic detailed studies will probably reveal this and somalis should not be surprised or offended,
the clan structure was not as rigid as we think and was very open in the past with allot of clans being adopted ..

There is also the phenomena of religious heritage with followers of a religious leader and their families coalescing into a clan within a couple of hundreds years of the religous leader/founders death..

This has happened all over the world to several other people and it would not be strange to discover this amongst somalis and others in the horn as well..

Clans are not homogenous. There is always some other clan that is adopted.

[gurey25]

mckus the data from all these genetic studies you are qouting is not enough.
I think it was a small sample of less than 100 somalis in denmark..

We need bigger samples to get a better idea..

[gurey25]

amongst somalis there will be homogeneous clans within the larger clan structure,

future genetic detailed studies will probably reveal this and somalis should not be surprised or offended,
the clan structure was not as rigid as we think and was very open in the past with allot of clans being adopted ..

There is also the phenomena of religious heritage with followers of a religious leader and their families coalescing into a clan within a couple of hundreds years of the religous leader/founders death..

This has happened all over the world to several other people and it would not be strange to discover this amongst somalis and others in the horn as well..

Clans are not homogenous. There is always some other clan that is adopted.

yes but we need to determine the size and the identification of the adopted clans..

for example among my clan habar jeclo there exists reer dood who are considered as adopted members of the family .
but they are not even isaaq or Dir. They are probably a prehistoric remnant of the original somali clans before the current clan structure.

I am sure there are other examples within other clans.

[Mckuus]

mckus the data from all these genetic studies you are qouting is not enough.
I think it was a small sample of less than 100 somalis in denmark..

We need bigger samples to get a better idea..

It was actually 200 samples, which is by modern studies quite large. Personal results of members here also showed that E-V32 is most definitely the most dominant group in Somalis.

E-V32 is 8000 yrs old but the E-V32 cluster present in Somalis has an expansion time of only 2000 yrs (much younger than the subclade itself).

[James Dahl]

Well I think the first place to look is the libraries of the Qadis, who have been a respected and literate class of Somalis for over a thousand years. Surely there is a chronicle or two gathering dust on a shelf somewhere.

[gurey25]

Well I think the first place to look is the libraries of the Qadis, who have been a respected and literate class of Somalis for over a thousand years. Surely there is a chronicle or two gathering dust on a shelf somewhere.

or even better someone need to find the lost volume of the futuxat al xabash.
volume 2 was suppose to be about the spread of islam into the xabash, the first muslims, the founding of zeylac, ifat etc etc..