Al Shabab should be wiped out

[Salahuddiin]

FAH

So because a Muslim is not perfect and does wrong things he should be fought and killed, while kaafir's horrible deeds are dismissed with 'boys will be boys' -type of 'gaalo just don't understand' -mentality and sitting it out? Al-Walaa wal baraa is one basic concept of Islam meaning that there should be a special bond among Muslims while excluding kuffaar from this. Muslims are supposed to support and guide each other. Nowadays people are giving the exact benefit of doubt to kuffaar, that's supposed to be given only to Muslims. When Mucaawiya and Cali radiallaah canhuma were fighting each other with thousands of Muslims dead from both sides, Byzantium emperor was contemplating of invading and re-taking the areas he had lost to Muslims. When Mucaawiya heard about this, he wrote a letter to emperor stating that if you make a move I'll make peace with Cali and we both will unite fighting you. That letter was enough for emperor to forget his plans. That is the mentality Muslims should have towards one another and see the big picture even though they could be at war with each other at the moment.

Khaalid bin al-Waliid made several mistakes while being a general of Muslim armies, one of the most serious of them was his intentional killing of Muslims, because they lived in enemy territory. Prophet Muhammad SCWS condemned the act saying that he's free of what Khaalid is doing, but still he SCWS didn't dismiss Khaalid from his post and let him continue as a general.

I honestly believe that this mentality seen in this forum is nothing but the result of living under the influence of western ideologies and propaganda too long without strong iman and knowledge of religion. Basically western world view is the standard for most people here when they weigh the issues. TFG soldiers are robbing people blind, killing civilians almost everyday and raping poor refugee women running from the drought. TFG as an institution is totally corrupt and they are inviting foreign troops to Somalia along with some private security companies with horrible reputation. There's mild condemnation here and comments that they are useless, but no one is calling to killing them, because in the end of the day they are the "official government" only because USA & co say so. Al-Shabaab on the other hand can be fought and killed, because USA & co say it should be fought and destroyed...

The scale through which we view and weigh things around us should be based on Islam and if there's room for some other viewpoints they can be included as long as they don't collide with Islamic principles. Sadly in reality that inner scale of us is 99% filled with non-Islamic western mentality with thin Islamic layer on top.

For those who say that al-Shabaab intentionally targets civilians, please give only one reference of such case.

Muslim who does wrong should be punished in a just and Islamic way, no doubt. If a Muslim breaks the rules of war set by Islam, those responsible should be held responsible, but in any case a kaafir transgressing towards a Muslim should be met with much more harsh reaction, but this is missing. All I'm asking here is how come the reaction is overwhelmingly hostile when Islamic group does something, while there's hardly any reaction when kuffaar or one of their allies (TFG for example) does the same? That is in reality one aspect of Khariji-mentality, unleashing the wrath towards Muslims while ignoring the kuffar.

[FAH1223]

FAH

So because a Muslim is not perfect and does wrong things he should be fought and killed, while kaafir's horrible deeds are dismissed with 'boys will be boys' -type of 'gaalo just don't understand' -mentality and sitting it out? Al-Walaa wal baraa is one basic concept of Islam meaning that there should be a special bond among Muslims while excluding kuffaar from this. Muslims are supposed to support and guide each other. Nowadays people are giving the exact benefit of doubt to kuffaar, that's supposed to be given only to Muslims. When Mucaawiya and Cali radiallaah canhuma were fighting each other with thousands of Muslims dead from both sides, Byzantium emperor was contemplating of invading and re-taking the areas he had lost to Muslims. When Mucaawiya heard about this, he wrote a letter to emperor stating that if you make a move I'll make peace with Cali and we both will unite fighting you. That letter was enough for emperor to forget his plans. That is the mentality Muslims should have towards one another and see the big picture even though they could be at war with each other at the moment.

Khaalid bin al-Waliid made several mistakes while being a general of Muslim armies, one of the most serious of them was his intentional killing of Muslims, because they lived in enemy territory. Prophet Muhammad SCWS condemned the act saying that he's free of what Khaalid is doing, but still he SCWS didn't dismiss Khaalid from his post and let him continue as a general.

I honestly believe that this mentality seen in this forum is nothing but the result of living under the influence of western ideologies and propaganda too long without strong iman and knowledge of religion. Basically western world view is the standard for most people here when they weigh the issues. TFG soldiers are robbing people blind, killing civilians almost everyday and raping poor refugee women running from the drought. TFG as an institution is totally corrupt and they are inviting foreign troops to Somalia along with some private security companies with horrible reputation. There's mild condemnation here and comments that they are useless, but no one is calling to killing them, because in the end of the day they are the "official government" only because USA & co say so. Al-Shabaab on the other hand can be fought and killed, because USA & co say it should be fought and destroyed...

The scale through which we view and weigh things around us should be based on Islam and if there's room for some other viewpoints they can be included as long as they don't collide with Islamic principles. Sadly in reality that inner scale of us is 99% filled with non-Islamic western mentality with thin Islamic layer on top.

For those who say that al-Shabaab intentionally targets civilians, please give only one reference of such case.

Muslim who does wrong should be punished in a just and Islamic way, no doubt. If a Muslim breaks the rules of war set by Islam, those responsible should be held responsible, but in any case a kaafir transgressing towards a Muslim should be met with much more harsh reaction, but this is missing. All I'm asking here is how come the reaction is overwhelmingly hostile when Islamic group does something, while there's hardly any reaction when kuffaar or one of their allies (TFG for example) does the same? That is in reality one aspect of Khariji-mentality, unleashing the wrath towards Muslims while ignoring the kuffar.

The fact that we hold Muslims to a higher standard and are twisting our deen to kill innocents means it must be dealt with.

Do not sugar coat this

[Salahuddiin]

So because Muslims should know better, you are ready to fight and kill them, while others who kill Muslims get a pass? Yes, Muslims should know better, but same time they have rights upon us non-Muslims don't have.

If we look at the lives of Prophet SCWS and khulafaa ar raashiduun it was exactly the opposite; they were generally lenient and forgiving to Muslims who did wrong while fulfilling huduud-obligations when necessary, but if non-Muslims transgressed against Muslims they became the top priority immediately. They didn't have this same concept that Snet-forumers share.

Ashiddaa calal kuffaar ruxamaa bainahum...

[UlteriorMotive]

But the thing is salahuddin, all non-muslim forces who have entered somalia have, to my knowledge, always been fought. Did we welcome the ethiopians? the americans? Were we not supporting al-shabab up to a few years ago? Were they not funded by somalis themselves (funded not extorted)?

People are not stupid. Instead of pointing the finger at somalis for an alleged bias towards westerners perhaps you should look carefully at al-shabab and why they are hated. Are most somalis gaalo?

Also what the hell does western propaganda have to do with anything? Is it CNN that carried out mass murder on muslim students? Western propaganda or not al-shabab kills innocent somalis. You cannot blame it on a few rogue elements 'who will be dealt with' when it is sanctioned from the top.

Btw was khalid bin waleed (r.a) repeatedly killing muslim youth on muslim soil? What a terrible example.

[Jaidi]

I think Salahuddin has a point to a certain extent that I was trying to get across in my other thread. I think he is right when he points out that there is a discrepancy in the moral outrage that Somalis exhibit to the main groups in this conflict, and even stretching to the past. However I disagree with his confusing defense of AlShabaab's brutality, as well as his implication that this is due to "Western views".

To the contrary I'd argue the moral discrepancy has way more to do with Somali culture/society than anything else. Conflicts with clearly demarcated clan allegiances are easy to understand and rationalize. It is not hard for Somalis to lose all pretenses of neutrality when it is the clan being defended or is the perceived target. It also makes it much easier to position your point of view based on where your (blood) allegiance lays. For anyone who tries to question this claim I'll just refer you to the almost comical turn of positions between people who were for/against the Ethiopian invasion/relations( and vice versa) based on who was running the TFG. Even before this, in terms of sheer number of innocent civilians the atrocities of the latter day warlords dwarf anything al Shabaab has ever done. However the cover and defense clan allegiances provided then, again helped people rationalize war crimes. In this case the target is completely unclear and seemingly everyone is at risk. The nondiscriminatory nature of their brutality is almost radical in the sense its something that can be much easier to rally against. However does this justify the moral ambivalence towards similar atrocities that are sometimes even worse?

[Salahuddiin]

What I mean by 'western mentality', is that in reality this is the scope that 90% of the people here view what is happening in Somalia, or any other place in the world, even though the scope should be Islam. This system of governance and internationally accepted norms built by kuffaar is the defining standard when people here try to think what is wrong or what is right. TFG is the official government in Somalia, because it's recognized by UN and west. Al-Shabaab is outlaw group far away from established western norms, which makes it criminal organization that must be destroyed, because it's not recognized by UN and west, even though if we view their status through Islam, al-Shabaab is the established authority and TFG are the rebels trying to take over their lands. That's why when TFG, USA or any government commit any horrible act, where innocent people lose their lives, people here don't call out for their destruction but just condemn mildly saying 'that's wrong, but mistakes happen'. Now on the other hand when al-Shabaab or any other Islamic "outlaw" group commits such an act (and this happens like in 1/1000 proportion compared to US), all hell breaks lose. Every political opinion in this forum is following American mainstream opinions, either from the left or from the right, but never steps outside the box or let Islam be the defining point.

UN "peace-keepers" are not enemy combatants and illegal invaders, because they are sanctioned by the established status quo system. Even though they are not neutral and clearly help one side in an armed conflict, people still see them as peace-keepers who help the population and attacking them is just wrong.

TFG or any other government can collect taxes as much as they want and no one even thinks twice that there's something wrong, even though taxes are unislamic. When al-Shabaab collects Zakaah made obligatory by Islam, people are horrified and calling them thieves. Every Muslim-owned business should give 2,5 % of their capital to Muslim authority, as well as Muslim individuals who have certain amount of wealth. Certain amount of agricultural products should also be given away the amount depending on is the farm irrigated or not. Cattle-owners should also give certain amount of cattle depending on how much they own etc.

This is what I mean by western mentality, even though someone's name is Muhammad, he thinks exactly like any John from the street and uses same standards to define things, when it comes to politics.

Ulteriormotive

I brought up Khaalid bin al-Waliid just for an example to show, that even though mistakes happen in Jihaad, there's always bigger picture, and just like we don't define Islam by acts of individual Muslims, we don't define Jihaad by acts of Muslims. Even though Muslims could make 1000 mistakes in Jihaad, it doesn't take away the status of Jihaad in itself.

Instead of pointing the finger at somalis for an alleged bias towards westerners perhaps you should look carefully at al-shabab and why they are hated.

So how come western-recognized governments or institutions are not hated similarly, when they do similar acts? Because of the fact that they are "officially recognized" and as such part of the status quo system, which is the defining standard for most Snet forumers.

[Talo alle udaa]

The killing of innocent civilians cannot be justified regardless of who does it. The rage that is visible from the hearts of the Somali towards the shabaab comes from their complete disregard for the civilian population in the capitol, particularly the hawiye clan. Also, their is a psychological impact from an image created in the minds of the public, of uncontrolled religious zealots carrying bombs into markets and civilian areas leading to pieces of human flesh scattered, burned bodies- as oppose to a precision laser guided bomb that takes out an entire neighborhood. The latter is just easier on the human psyche.

[Talo alle udaa]

The killing of innocent civilians cannot be justified regardless of who does it. The rage that is visible from the hearts of the Somali towards the shabaab comes from their complete disregard for the civilian population in the capitol, particularly the hawiye clan. Also, their is a psychological impact from an image created in the minds of the public, of uncontrolled religious zealots carrying bombs into markets and civilian areas leading to pieces of human flesh scattered, burned bodies- as oppose to a precision laser guided bomb that takes out an entire neighborhood. The latter is just easier on the human psyche.

[Talo alle udaa]

The killing of innocent civilians cannot be justified regardless of who does it. The rage that is visible from the hearts of the Somali towards the shabaab comes from their complete disregard for the civilian population in the capitol, particularly the hawiye clan. Also, their is a psychological impact from an image created in the minds of the public, of uncontrolled religious zealots carrying bombs into markets and civilian areas leading to pieces of human flesh scattered, burned bodies- as oppose to a precision laser guided bomb that takes out an entire neighborhood. The latter is just easier on the human psyche.

[Estarix]

What I mean by 'western mentality', is that in reality this is the scope that 90% of the people here view what is happening in Somalia, or any other place in the world, even though the scope should be Islam. This system of governance and internationally accepted norms built by kuffaar is the defining standard when people here try to think what is wrong or what is right. TFG is the official government in Somalia, because it's recognized by UN and west. Al-Shabaab is outlaw group far away from established western norms, which makes it criminal organization that must be destroyed, because it's not recognized by UN and west, even though if we view their status through Islam, al-Shabaab is the established authority and TFG are the rebels trying to take over their lands. That's why when TFG, USA or any government commit any horrible act, where innocent people lose their lives, people here don't call out for their destruction but just condemn mildly saying 'that's wrong, but mistakes happen'. Now on the other hand when al-Shabaab or any other Islamic "outlaw" group commits such an act (and this happens like in 1/1000 proportion compared to US), all hell breaks lose. Every political opinion in this forum is following American mainstream opinions, either from the left or from the right, but never steps outside the box or let Islam be the defining point.

UN "peace-keepers" are not enemy combatants and illegal invaders, because they are sanctioned by the established status quo system. Even though they are not neutral and clearly help one side in an armed conflict, people still see them as peace-keepers who help the population and attacking them is just wrong.

TFG or any other government can collect taxes as much as they want and no one even thinks twice that there's something wrong, even though taxes are unislamic. When al-Shabaab collects Zakaah made obligatory by Islam, people are horrified and calling them thieves. Every Muslim-owned business should give 2,5 % of their capital to Muslim authority, as well as Muslim individuals who have certain amount of wealth. Certain amount of agricultural products should also be given away the amount depending on is the farm irrigated or not. Cattle-owners should also give certain amount of cattle depending on how much they own etc.

This is what I mean by western mentality, even though someone's name is Muhammad, he thinks exactly like any John from the street and uses same standards to define things, when it comes to politics.

Ulteriormotive

I brought up Khaalid bin al-Waliid just for an example to show, that even though mistakes happen in Jihaad, there's always bigger picture, and just like we don't define Islam by acts of individual Muslims, we don't define Jihaad by acts of Muslims. Even though Muslims could make 1000 mistakes in Jihaad, it doesn't take away the status of Jihaad in itself.

Instead of pointing the finger at somalis for an alleged bias towards westerners perhaps you should look carefully at al-shabab and why they are hated.

So how come western-recognized governments or institutions are not hated similarly, when they do similar acts? Because of the fact that they are "officially recognized" and as such part of the status quo system, which is the defining standard for most Snet forumers.

Firstly two evils dont make a good and no-ones justifying the actions of the west, putting Alshabaabs actions at a higher moral ground by using Western actions as a platform is not a way to wash away the deeds of Alshabaab.
A bunch of gun trotting teanagers led by armed mullahs do not equal the kind of advanced rule and administration that we see in the modern world, so why do Somalis have to be the victims (out of all the Muslim nations in the world) of this type of Taliban rule where force is the rule of law. What Somalis propograte is an alternative; most dont disagree against Shariah law itself, but oppose the core objectives of the paramillitary gang; a gang which today holds one of the most unstable and violent regions in the world hostage.
Alshabaab has proven to be an obstacle to a formation of a united, stable and secure Somalia.

[ultratribalism]

In reality,killing an alshabab member have more ajar than killing an infidel.


Maxey diinta ka Qabtaa Hadii la dilo nin Shabaabka ka Tiran? this is the islamic view on alshabab kharijites.





Asc,Marka hore waxaan u tacsiyeeynayaa dhamaan umadda islaamka ah ee somaliyeed ee murugada baaxadda leh heysato.waxaan leeyahay waan idin la qabaa xanuunka aad dareemeysaan.



Anigu ma ihi caalim diinta ku xeeldheer,balse waxaan ahay “baaxith” baara arimaha xarakaatka lunsan ee qaarkood ku dhacay kufriga sida alqaeda.

Marka hore diinta islaamka waa “diinul wisaadah” ama diin dhexdhexaad ah oo allah baa quraankiisa munazal ka ah ku oranaya. “ وَكَذَلِكَ جعلناك أمة وَسَطاً

””

oo runtii la diidayo inaad “taqsiir” ama ka gaabis aad ka gaabiso cibaadaadka alle swt.waayo allah subxaanu watacaalaa wuxuu inoo abuuray inaan asaga uun caabudno. Waxaana u daliil ah ayada suuratul aldaariyat ee oraneysa “ اوما خلقت الجن والإنس إلا ليعبدون “.

sidoo kale lama ogola inaad ku xadgudubto cibaadada alle SWT sida adigoo alle swt u caabuda si uusan asagu ku farina ma Nabiigeena Suuban SCW uusan noo sheegin.Ku xadgudubka diinta waxaa ka mid ah “Al-tacasub bi rayi,wal afkaar ,wal madhab” oo ah inaad ku tacasubtid waliba si indho la aan hal rayi,fikir ama madhab.waayo arintaasi waxey fureysaa albaabka khawaarijnimada oo markii danbe uu qofku ku halaagsamo.Hadaba markii aan u soo laabto arinta nimaanka la dhaho kawaarijta,ibnu kathiir-raximahullah-ayaa wuxuu kitaabkiisa la dhaho “البداية والنهاية” wuxuu ku leeyahay kitaabkiis “khawaarijtu waa kugu ugu yaabka badan ashkaasha bani aadamka ee allaha SWT abuuray”
axaadith farabadan ayaa ku soo aroortay khawaarijta oo uu nabigeenu noogu sheegayo Qatarta ay leeyihiin nimanka noocaas ah
khawaarijtu waxey hor dhac u yihiin soo bixitaanka masiixul dajaal marka ay soo dhawaato maalinta xisaabta.

Saxaabiga jaliilka ah ee saciid al-khudri hadiith saxiix ah uu nabiga ka soo wariyay ayaa nuxurkiisa oranayaa “axadkiin wuu xaqirayaa saladiisa marka loo eego salaadooda,soonkiisuna wuu xaqirayaa marka loo eego soonkooda,quraanka ayey aqrinayan mana dhaafayo luquntooda,diintana waxey ugu baxaan sida falaarta ay qaansada ugu baxdo”.waa yaab! War nimanka inaga salad badan,inaga soon badan haddan islaamku ehel u ma ahan!

Ayadoo dhiigu muslimka daadintii xaaraam tahay oon aan ognahay qofkii baneesta inuu yahay kaafir bilaahi alcaziim ayaa waxaa dhacday in ninmanka shaabaab ah ay baneeysteen daadinta dhiiga muslim ah ee ardadanii waxbarasho ku jirtay intay xasuuqeen haddana ku faanay war miyeeyna ku dhicin sifooyinka khawaarijta,waxaa waajib diini ah in la ciribtiro oo aan loo aabo yeelin.ninkii dagaalkooda ku dhintana waa shahiid,haduu ayagu dilana ajar weyn buu alle agtiisa ka helayaa.wadaad kasta oo taageerana ayaga waxma ma dhaamo.


Nabigeenu wuxuu na faray marka aan aragno nimankaas khawaarijt ah in aan la dagaalano.wuxuuna yiri suubanahu {– لئن أدركتهم لأقتلنهم قتل ثمود أو قتل عاد }
“Hadii aan ku soo gaari lahaa waxaan u layn lahaa sida qoomkii caad ama thamuud”.

Waxaan aad ula dhacsanahay in umaddu fahamtay Ujeedada dhabta ee ururkaan iney tahay dabargoynta ubadka muslimiinta.

umadda muslimiinta waxaa alle swt ku waajibiyay in ay la dagaalamaan kooxaaha khawaarijta.ninkii asagoo khaariji ah dhintana wuxuu ka mid noqonayaa “كلاب النار ” ama eeyaha naarta lagu shido.walciyaadul billahi alcaziim.
وسيعلم الذين ظلموا أي منقلب ينقلبون