I never laughed this hard.

[grandpakhalif]

Before I can tell you if I agree, can you explain a bit further?

Are you stating that unless there is proof of the prophet PBUH or his sahaba RA doing something, then we must assume it is haram for us to do?

Of course, everything related to cibada and deen we need proof and evidence or else its rejected. Protesting is not from the way of the Salaf, they used to be patient and enduring in times of fitnah.

In a sahih hadith the prophet said: "Obey the ruler even if he beats you and takes your money" This has condition though: As long as his orders are in line with Quran and Sunnah.

This protesting nonsense is from the kuffar and neither I nor the culuma never accepted it.

Based, that hadith about the sahaba protesting in mecca has been refuted and is daciif weak and has been rejected.

[Nanees]

Do you then believe that internet, cars, radios, watches, clocks, computers, buildings made of stones, cement roads, audio cassettes, radios, and any other invention since the time of the salaaf is haram?

[Based]

I'm not talking about a particular hadith, I'm talking about protesting against social injustice.

I thought it was imperative for a Muslim to hate injustice and oppression, and to be opposed to it either by force of arms, by their speech, and at the very least in their hearts?

I don't see how protesting against something is kufr, unless you're arguing that the Prophet didn't do it. I can assure you that the Prophet never used a forum either

[Keyblade]

I don't see the contradiction

you wouldn't, wouldn't you

[grandpakhalif]

Do you then believe that internet, cars, radios, watches, clocks, computers, buildings made of stones, cement roads, audio cassettes, radios, and any other invention since the time of the salaaf is haram?

Protesting is considered revolt against the ruler, this is considered worship because the Prophet discussed dealing with the rulers, differentiate wordly innovations from religious innovations like protesting and internet.

A revolt is not just with the sword and fighting the ruler. A revolt can take many forms such as nationwide protests and demonstrations, sit-ins, military coups and secret assignations etc.


Ibn Abbas reported that the Messenger of Allah said, “Anyone who dislikes something from his leader should be patient. Anyone who abandons obedience to the leader for even a short time dies the death of the Jaahiliyyah (pre-Islam)”. Recorded by Bukhari and Muslim

These are the words of the Prophet! listen and obey! Nacam.

[Nanees]

What if the ruler is transgressing against the boundaries set for him by Allah? Do the people then continue to call a transgressor their leader?

What does this mean:

Protesting is considered revolt against the ruler, this is considered worship

And please, elaborate, how do you identify protesting as a religious innovation and not a worldly one?

differentiate wordly innovations from religious innovations like protesting and internet.

[grandpakhalif]

Of course! This happened during the time of the Salaf where Al Hajjaaj the brutal ruler massacred hundreds of Sahaba and muslims. Yet they remained patient, not seeking to overthrow him. This was the way of the Salaf, Nacam.


Did Anas bin Maalik (radiallaahu 'anhu) call for it when Hajjaj sought to humiliate him and strangle him?

Did Imam Malik call for it when he was beaten?

Did Imam Shaaf'ee call for it when he was driven out of Naysaboor?

La wallahi.

[grandpakhalif]

Protesting is part of revolt therefore it is a worship of Allah because it deals with rulers , which has very strict conditions in our religion. It is an innovation from the West which has never seen the light of day, where screaming, intermixing, clapping, cursing the rulers signs etc were introduced.

This is all I have to say about the subject as I have made it very clear that it is not permissible nor was it a practice of the most righteous generation.

[Based]

And where did that lead the Muslim world?

Oh yeah, colonization.

[1nemansquad]

we (som'net community) need to get these two youngins married

anyone else?

[Nanees]

How do you reconcile those views with these ayats:

And fight in the Way of Allâh those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allâh likes not the transgressors.
2:190

Thus We have made you* a Wasat (just) (and the best) nation, that you be witnesses over mankind.
[Al-Baqara 2:143]

you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allâh[4:135]

[grandpakhalif]

Do you think you can just cite ayaats and know their full understanding, their conditions and their fiqh. No you don't. Those ayaats are addressed to the leaders and rulers not common folk, the ruler decides when we go to jihad or not. These ayats have nothing to do with protesting.

[SultanOrder]

I wonder, if the first three generations is the epitome of our ummah, in terms of conduct, worship, and knowledge. And we are never to be able to get back to their level, does that mean that we must hold ourselves to their standards wholly? Or better yet, is it a crime for our failings to be like them, since they are the best generation and we shall never reach their likeness, we are simply in a way fulfilling a prophecy.

[grandpakhalif]

Also Nanees, may allah protect you the Prophet said:


“Obey them as long as they establish the prayer amongst you. (Obey them) in that which you like and dislike. He (the Prophet peace and blessings are upon him) said, “Obey them as long as they establish the prayer amongst you”. They said, “Shall we not make war against them with our swords?” He (the Prophet, peace and blessings are upon him) said, “No, as long as they pray.”

Oppressive rulers, but despite this the Prophet, peace and blessings are upon him, ordered (the Muslims) to be patient with them and he did not allow rebelling against them. And the one that rebels against them (the rulers) has rebelled against the Muslims and the one that rebels should be killed even if he rebelled against an unjust ruler.

Narrated Az-Zubair bin 'Adi:

We went to Anas bin Malik(ra) and complained about the wrong we were suffering at the hand of Al-Hajjaj. Anas bin Malik(ra) said, "Be patient till you meet your Lord, for no time will come upon you but the time following it will be worse than it. I heard that from the Prophet."

Anas bin Malik who spent extensive time with The Prophet look at his view on this matter, I would rather follow him than some obscure muslim in the 21st century

[Nanees]

I cannot understand an islam which encourages people to 'be patient' with tyrants who use rape as a weapon against muslim women, who oppress muslim orphans and steal their wealth, and steal the hard earned money of muslim families.