I can't believe this is still going.
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That's so embarrassing.Lilaahiya,
Good points, but Your last point is off. Pakistani, Arab girls very rarely marry ajanabi even the most wadaad families. I pray at Paki mosque and know their culture well. I bet if I go to the Imam tommorow after he finishes making the Post Salah Dua, and ask Him for a Pakistani sister to marry He will take off His Turban and choke me with it until the ambulance arrives
I know a Somali Guy who for some reason was obsessed with marrying a Arab girl. The poor Guy who was a great look, got rejected by so many Arab families until finally one Palestinian family relented, and allowed Him to marry from them. The girl was kinda older so that also probably explains why they backed off
The sad thing is here we're not even talking about elegible ajanabi bachleors marrying Somali girls, but the lowest of the low of the ajanabi feeling its their right, and easy to marry one. This reflects bad on us as a Somali Community, and makes us look low.
oh yeah i forgot about the qabil aspect too... something that has def been passed down from parent to child is qabil prejudices and/or parents still have them in the West
we just keep digging our hole as a collective bunch
Not a last minute dash for faarax the local taxi-driver or tyrone al mujahid the latest revert.
I suggest a radical change in how we approach marriage, by 14-15 the girls should be thinking about it and by their late teens suitable matches should be made. Not a last minute dash for faarax the local taxi-driver or tyrone al mujahid the latest revert.
Not a last minute dash for faarax the local taxi-driver or tyrone al mujahid the latest revert.
Good post.Ain't no one gonna settle for a cheap imitation when they could get the original. A large portion of Somali male youth in the west emulate AAs & adhere to the black subculture. I bet everyone knows a handful of guys who are choppers or aspiring rappers or trying to get drafted in basketball or are professional criminals, constantly in & out of the bin. So if this is the lifestyle our brothers, relatives, and male friends are endorsing, then why is everyone up in arms when a Somali girl marries an ex-con? Indeed, our Somali walaalyaal are doing a fine job at being buckets, but shidh just isn't the same when you get the real deal. Instead of settling for a Somali guy who wholeheartedly believes he's from Kingston, Jamaica, why not marry someone who is actually from there?
Then we have brothers who've seen the light, reformed and will swear to God they're Arab. You'll find them at the masjid, tryna to string together the only 6 Arabic words they know into what they think is a coherent sentence ( i.e "Kayf ya habibi, macasalaama yallah bes"). Refuse to wear a macawis or any other cultural clothing, yet are always rocking dishdashas/khamiis on the day-to-day. Don't care to go back home but are saving up their money to move to some gulf state. They'll own all of Sami Yusufs cds and blast them in their car, but refuse to play Somali Nabi-amaan. So it's really not much of a surprise as to why Somali women end up with ajnabis. Regardless of how hard our men try, by skipping all this make-belief, a sister can get her authenticity on with an actual ajnabi instead of settling for second best. By imitating other ethnic groups, there is a concession being made that our dhaqan is inferior, and this is internalized by all parties.
Essentially, you and Lillahiya are not disagreeing. You both agree that more Somali girls are intermarrying with outsiders. She has just given a good reason as to why this is.^No, it isn't.
I need to make this clear: This is not about marrying non-Somali. The issue at hand is about a particular brand of men who feel Somali girls are a given when it comes to marriage. The vast majority of these men happen to be recently reformed/revert Muslims with dangerous backgrounds.
Lill,
Whether or not you know it, you made the argument for cultural incentive. The girls that we are talking about do not want Somali men. They don't. And yes, your post very obviously put the blame on us. Let me paint a picture for you; myself and four other brothers sitting down for lunch between classes. 3 of them happen to be non-Somali. The issue of marriage comes up, inevitably. The 3 non-Somali brothers, 1 of whom happens to be a revert and 1 reformed, are amazing guys mashaAllah. What was peculiar about this conversation was that each of these brothers questioned us, myself and my other Somali acquaintance, as to why they've each been approached by 2-3 different Somali girls with regards to marriage. Neither of us were willing to or could say why. All my friend could do was share his experience of being passed around a group of girls because apparently he didn't meet their standards, until he got to one who did. These girls in question chase the shortest khamiis and longest beard on anyone who isn't Somali. A Somali dude who's more intelligent, clean background, knows their language and has career prospects can't compete simply because he's not "Salafi enough". Even in a university setting.
Culture is dead, Lill. If you won't read that thread the least you can do is read my posts in this one. Likewise with the issues of "family"/"community" that you've skipped over.
Yes, Somali guys really do need to better themselves if they're intending to keep the interests of their sisters. I have no debates with that. Our counterparts generally do much better than us. Undeniable. As long as they're choosing someone who's better, ethnicity/nationality is not a point of argument. But this is clearly not always the case.
I believe I'm only repeating myself in this topic. I've said what I could say.
And that is exactly the crux of the matter. Somali parents have failed, especially the fathers. Why are somali girls more self-hating or have lower self-esteem than a paki or an arab? It's the wierdest thing. I understand madow women since their men are usually chasing women of other races, mostly ugly cadaan chicks, lakiin the vast majority of somali men put somali women at the top of their "to marry" list. I remember a cousin of mine wanted to marry a dutch cadaan chick and my grandma threatened to disown him. Imagine one of my female cousins decided to bring home some ajnabi and ku nolosha ka dhacay to boot?It all comes down to self-hate and low self esteem.
I reckon fathers play a major role in this aswell.. A high percentage of Somali fathers are no good. In the west the Mother is not only the backbone of the family but she also does every little single thing and the daughters see this.. So why make the same mistake as your mother?
They would rather make their own mistakes with a non-Somali regardless of his ethnicity and if this means jumping the boat with a ajanabi who happens to be a waste man.. Marka so be it, because in their eyes no man can be as useless as the Somali man..
Girls need a good, strong male role model as much as males.. If not more!!
You need a strong decent family to keep you in check. I'm glad I come from a family with pride and honour who want to protect their blood and somalinimo. It's a shame I can't say the same for other families. Nowadays any old foreign trash thinks he bag himself a somali chick anytime. Seriously, I've even heard some somali chicks marrying eastern europeans. 
Lilaahiya,
Again I don't even mind ajanabi marrying into Somali Wallahi as long as He's Muslim, and STABLE. That being said, I do not like the dredges of society of other ajanabi groups feeling that they can just marry Somalis. My own family ajanabi has married into, a cousin and a aunt. One was white, and the guy unfortunately was a bum. The other was African American, and Wallahi He's like the best guy I've seen marry into my family, which it was all cousins, aunts not immediete family btw. Another was Somali, and the guy was a even bigger bum than the White Guy. Bottom line is, whether its Somali or not marry dad macquul ah, and if You do marry ajanabi at least marry one that is decent. The only point I was making is Somali girls have developed a rep as being a easy catch for any screwups from other races, and it gives us a bad image as a race.
Lilaahiya
They do marry excon Somalis but that is sweeped under the umbrella because it is seen as normal. I writ that in connection to this phenomenon.
Taasa ugu daran. This topic should be changed to "Somali girls & their low expectations". Like UlteriorMotive stated, I presented a theory as to why this is. I didn't make an argument "for" or "against" anything either. I only connected the dots and made assumptions along the way. I don't think there's a 'one-glove-fits-all' solution. I don't think if Somali youth in diaspora rekindled their love for their culture, this social phenomenon within our community would all go away.
Lill,
Whether or not you know it, you made the argument for cultural incentive. The girls that we are talking about do not want Somali men. They don't. And yes, your post very obviously put the blame on us. Let me paint a picture for you; myself and four other brothers sitting down for lunch between classes. 3 of them happen to be non-Somali. The issue of marriage comes up, inevitably. The 3 non-Somali brothers, 1 of whom happens to be a revert and 1 reformed, are amazing guys mashaAllah. What was peculiar about this conversation was that each of these brothers questioned us, myself and my other Somali acquaintance, as to why they've each been approached by 2-3 different Somali girls with regards to marriage. Neither of us were willing to or could say why. All my friend could do was share his experience of being passed around a group of girls because apparently he didn't meet their standards, until he got to one who did. These girls in question chase the shortest khamiis and longest beard on anyone who isn't Somali. A Somali dude who's more intelligent, clean background, knows their language and has career prospects can't compete simply because he's not "Salafi enough". Even in a university setting.
I've read your post. Although I do agree that Somalis value community over family, but I don't see how we don't have communities in qurbaha. Especially in this day and age, networks such as facebook where groups share interests or worldviews are considered a community, I don't see how you've concluded that Somalis out here don't have a community.Culture is dead, Lill. If you won't read that thread the least you can do is read my posts in this one. Likewise with the issues of "family"/"community" that you've skipped over.
Nonsense I have yet to see any asian that will let his daughter marry such filth. I mean for god sakes these people are probably bastard born (they dont know their fathers names) and they still give their daughters away to them. No fckin' pride whatsoever.
Let me get this straight: because you haven't yet seen an Asian marry outside their ethnic group, it doesn't happen. War baruurta iska ilaali.
1 - Somalians are quite soft. Please don't take this the wrong way, but they really are. I think this is in fact a good quality, it means that when you argue with one they will soon forgive and forget, and if you wrong them they will still give you your rights. These are fine Islamic qualities and something we could all learn from. However, sometimes you get Somalian sisters who become religious and their parents, while being very nice, decent and upright Muslims, are not that religious. So they 'trust' their daughters choice of suitor (if that word can be used) and the dad does not do his job as a wali in looking out for his daughters best interests. He just acts as a rubber stamp.
3- The rights of parents. This is also a huge topic to be addressed. People have said to me that this thread assumes the sister is always innocent and the brother is the shark, whereas it takes two.. That is correct. The fact is that many sisters are no angels themselves and many of them abuse their parents in the process of marrying the man of their dreams (and the irony is that disobedience to parents is a far worse sin than shaving the beard, and even if the dad shaves the beard, no sane scholar would say that it is therefore OK to abuse him). I know of one Bengali sister who married a Madkhali a few years ago (and discovered shortly afterwards that he had another wife). She married secretly because she knew her parents would say no, and then she got found out because her mum thought she had a boyfriend and so she was forced to move out (and in with him). She gave up college and would work to provide for both of them because he was too busy giving da'wah to work. Oh, and her dad was wheelchair bound, and when she left home, she never contacted him again. Again, what sane person of knowledge would say this is OK?
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