Official NBA Playoffs Thread

[yungnfresh]

I'll give you Amare being better than Boozer, but Bosh? I had this exact same argument with my brother the other night and the facts speak for themselves sxb...Amare played with a HALL OF FAME PG for the majority of his NBA career, which means he was the direct beneficiary of defenders showing hard on Steve Nash in pick-and-rolls, and that gave Amare the chance to either pop or slip to the basket for an easy dunk, which is where he made his living. Who was the best PG Bosh played with, Alvin Williams? Bosh never had the luxury of playing with a back-to-back MVP winning playmaker who was in the mix for MVP almost every year they played together. Even with Nash spoon-feeding him a couple buckets a night for years, his career average is only slightly higher than Bosh's (even if you take out that year he was injured, there's no way his career PPG average jumps to 25 PPG especially when it's an average over 9 seasons). If anything, it's a toss-up between Bosh and Stat, and I'd give Bosh the nod by a sliver since he has a smoother jumpshot and is a better rebounder. Even defensively, Bosh showed last year in Spoelstra's system that he's not a bad individual or team defender when he tries...Amare is a better finisher around the rim and that's about it. Bosh has a quick first step and can drive either left or right if you play up on him and will bury a jumper in your face if you dare him to shoot, so he's every bit as unguardable offensively as Stat. Amare's mid-range game improved by leaps and bounds, but he's still not on Bosh or Nowitzki's level when it comes to draining the 15-20 footers and still relies mostly on his explosiveness, which ain't a good look when your knees are reconstructed.

As for playoffs, Bosh has rarely been on playoff teams...lakiin when he had a capable cast last year, he took his game to another level in the ECF against the Bulls and would have been the MVP of that series if there was such an award. Even in the Finals, he was the 2nd best player for the Heat and hit that game-winning shot in game 3. Amare flamed out in the first round against Boston cuz his back issues were back and the spasms made him a spectator for the rest of the sweep...it doesn't matter how beast you are if it's from the bench

[Jaidi]

I cant post as much as I want to now, but @ using the Steve Nash argument. Amare played half a season Ray Felton an average at best point guard, then the second half with Toney Douglas mostly at PG.....a guy who can barely run an offense and is really an undersized 2 guard, and still had big numbers. Why don't you look up Amare's stats whenever Nash was hurt. Dude was beasting with BARBOSA running point. The Nash nonsense is a weak diversion and it was proven to be false last season.

Amare is more aggressive than Bosh offensively and is also better off the ball. He also uses his athleticism more effectively than Bosh. Dude is just a better scorer.

Since you clearly don't remember what Amare has done in the playoffs, just look up his numbers. He has played over 30 playoff games and his playoff averages are top 2 at his position. The only PF who has a higher playoff average than Amare is Dirk Nowitzki. That is it. No one else comes close.

This year will be another blow to the Amare benefits off PG argument. The Knicks have a collection of Mike Bibby/Toney Douglas/Iman Shumpert( a rookie) handing point. Yet he will have all star numbers.

[yungnfresh]

So Raymond Felton was an average point guard with the Knicks? He averaged career highs with 17 points and 9 assists, and would've been an all-star if Rondo and Derrick Rose played in the West. He had a career year and put up Nash-esque numbers in NY while he was there...more importantly, he ran the pick-and-roll to perfection with Amare so no, it's still not clear if Stat can be effective without a PG setting him up for easy dunks or shots. Once he lost Felton, a pass-first PG like Nash and Melo came in with Chauncey (a shoot-first point guard who's not effective with the pick-and-roll/pop) running the point, his numbers did a nosedive.

Amare might be more athletic and aggressive on offense than Bosh, but so what?! Bosh has a finesse game and has a softer touch with the rock than Amare does...it's like saying Hakim Warrick is better than Pau Gasol offensively cuz he's more athletic and aggressive

LOL @ the playoff argument...bro, you shouldn't have brought that up cuz that just proved my case. The two years he didn't play with Nash (his rookie year and last year), what were his averages in the playoffs? An underwhelming 14.2 PPG and 14.5 PPG . With Nash? An impressive 25.2 PPG in 4 postseason appearances...Nash is the reason he's 2nd in scoring at his position among active players, point blank.

There's gonna be an NBA season this year and we'll see if he can be the MVP-level talent he was for the first half of the season last year now that he's not the only scorer and has no PG to pad Stats' stats...I agree that he played out of his mind to start last season, but let's have a memory that also includes the rest of his career apart from those 3 months, which has shown Stat is a dynamic scorer and a good overall player, but not an elite talent. He's gonna get his numbers and will likely be an all-star again, but that's his ceiling.

[FAH1223]

The East goes through Washington

[barakaboy10]

Best Frontline in the NBA: Melo, Amare, Chandler.

I'm sure Dallas' frontline (Odom, Marion & Nowitzki) has something to say about that.

Don't get me wrong, the Knicks are a lot better than they were at any point in the last 10 years but realistically speaking, they're still not even what I'd consider a contender in the Eastern conference unless the defensive culture changes. Even if it does, they have enough firepower to get past most teams, but Miami for one is too much for them to handle...cuz even if the pairing of Chandler + Stoudemire is better than Joel Anthony + Bosh, it's not enough to make up for how much better Miami's perimeter is with Wade + Lebron over Melo + Landry Fields. I'd even say the Bulls are gonna be clearly better than the Knicks once they land Rip Hamilton. I see the Knicks taking a step this year, but I don't even see them in the Eastern Conference Finals.

kinda agree with you but i believe knicks are formidable team. however, i won't be surprised if they don't make it to the semis come May.

[Jaidi]

So Raymond Felton was an average point guard with the Knicks? He averaged career highs with 17 points and 9 assists, and would've been an all-star if Rondo and Derrick Rose played in the West. He had a career year and put up Nash-esque numbers in NY while he was there...more importantly, he ran the pick-and-roll to perfection with Amare so no, it's still not clear if Stat can be effective without a PG setting him up for easy dunks or shots. Once he lost Felton, a pass-first PG like Nash and Melo came in with Chauncey (a shoot-first point guard who's not effective with the pick-and-roll/pop) running the point, his numbers did a nosedive.

Amare might be more athletic and aggressive on offense than Bosh, but so what?! Bosh has a finesse game and has a softer touch with the rock than Amare does...it's like saying Hakim Warrick is better than Pau Gasol offensively cuz he's more athletic and aggressive

LOL @ the playoff argument...bro, you shouldn't have brought that up cuz that just proved my case. The two years he didn't play with Nash (his rookie year and last year), what were his averages in the playoffs? An underwhelming 14.2 PPG and 14.5 PPG . With Nash? An impressive 25.2 PPG in 4 postseason appearances...Nash is the reason he's 2nd in scoring at his position among active players, point blank.

There's gonna be an NBA season this year and we'll see if he can be the MVP-level talent he was for the first half of the season last year now that he's not the only scorer and has no PG to pad Stats' stats...I agree that he played out of his mind to start last season, but let's have a memory that also includes the rest of his career apart from those 3 months, which has shown Stat is a dynamic scorer and a good overall player, but not an elite talent. He's gonna get his numbers and will likely be an all-star again, but that's his ceiling.

Are you using his rookie playoff numbers when he was 19 years old and a year when he was injured to discredit him?


His career always has shown he is an elite talent, without a doubt. At least agree if he replicates last season with the Knicks PG's right now, that he is better than Bosh?

[yungnfresh]

So Raymond Felton was an average point guard with the Knicks? He averaged career highs with 17 points and 9 assists, and would've been an all-star if Rondo and Derrick Rose played in the West. He had a career year and put up Nash-esque numbers in NY while he was there...more importantly, he ran the pick-and-roll to perfection with Amare so no, it's still not clear if Stat can be effective without a PG setting him up for easy dunks or shots. Once he lost Felton, a pass-first PG like Nash and Melo came in with Chauncey (a shoot-first point guard who's not effective with the pick-and-roll/pop) running the point, his numbers did a nosedive.

Amare might be more athletic and aggressive on offense than Bosh, but so what?! Bosh has a finesse game and has a softer touch with the rock than Amare does...it's like saying akim Warrick is better than Pau Gasol offensively cuz he's more athletic and aggressive

LOL @ the playoff argument...bro, you shouldn't have brought that up cuz that just proved my case. The two years he didn't play with Nash (his rookie year and last year), what were his averages in the playoffs? An underwhelming 14.2 PPG and 14.5 PPG . With Nash? An impressive 25.2 PPG in 4 postseason appearances...Nash is the reason he's 2nd in scoring at his position among active players, point blank.

There's gonna be an NBA season this year and we'll see if he can be the MVP-level talent he was for the first half of the season last year now that he's not the only scorer and has no PG to pad Stats' stats...I agree that he played out of his mind to start last season, but let's have a memory that also includes the rest of his career apart from those 3 months, which has shown Stat is a dynamic scorer and a good overall player, but not an elite talent. He's gonna get his numbers and will likely be an all-star again, but that's his ceiling.

      Are you using his rookie playoff numbers when he was 19 years old and a year when he was injured to discredit him? 

His career always has shown he is an elite talent, without a doubt. At least agree if he replicates last season with the Knicks PG's right now, that he is better than Bosh?

Call it what you wanna call it, the two years he played without Nash, those were his numbers At best, it's inconclusive since we don't know what affected his game more, him being a rookie/playing injured or not having Steve Nash driving the offense for those 2 postseasons...we'll never know what had a larger effect on him.

As for the Bosh comparison, there's a reason why the Knicks' first choice for a big man was Chris Bosh last offseason, also Miami's first choice for a PF to put next to Lebron/D-Wade, and widely regarded as the 3rd best talent available in last year's deep free agent pool after Lebron and D-Wade...one that also included Amare and Boozer. Who's to say Bosh wouldn't put up the same numbers Amare is (or better) if he played in D'Antoni's system, which is notorious for being high-scoring run-and-gun (Phoenix was among league leaders in points per game every year when Amare played under D'Antoni in the "7 seconds or less" offense earlier in the decade) and offensively-oriented to score 120 a night as a team.

On the surface, it may seem like Amare is better than Bosh just based on offensive numbers but if you look at all the circumstances, he's not a better talent and has just played under situations that gave him better opportunities to score more night in and night out. Statistics are like bikinis...they show you a lot but not everything

[FAH1223]

While the Chris Paul and Dwight Howard trade sweepstakes have overshadowed a frantic two-week offseason, the Memphis Grizzlies and Portland Trail Blazers have quietly become dark-horse contenders in the Western Conference. They lack the star power of their rivals, but both are built around long, athletic and skilled front-courts, the back-bone of a championship team.
With the re-signing of Marc Gasol, Memphis has the NBA’s best frontcourt rotation. While modern big men have increasingly drifted out to the perimeter, the 7’1, 265 Gasol and the 6’9, 260 Zach Randolph can bludgeon teams in the post. In a first-round upset of the 61-win San Antonio Spurs, Gasol and Randolph averaged 36 points and 21 rebounds on 51% shooting, taking advantage of the Spurs’ lack of a second defensive big next to Tim Duncan.

Behind them is Darrell Arthur, a versatile fourth-year 6’9 235 forward. Still only 23-years-old, the Kansas product had per-36 minute averages of 16.3 points, 7.7 rebounds and 1.4 blocks last season. He has the length and athleticism to be an effective interior defender and the jump-shooting ability to spread the floor.

Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/article/21 ... z1go6NQ65A

[Jaidi]

Where'd you get the idea the Knicks first choice was Bosh ? That is not true, the Knicks met Amare before Bosh was even available. The statistics without Nash were his full season last year and his rookie season, both which were huge. In fact Amare had one of the best rookie seasons as a PF as anyone around. Better than your boy Bosh too.


Watch the man and the Knicks in action right now:

http://www.firstrowsports.tv/watch/9855 ... nicks.html

[yungnfresh]

As for the Bosh comparison, there's a reason why the Knicks' first choice for a big man was Chris Bosh last offseason, also Miami's first choice for a PF to put next to Lebron/D-Wade, and widely regarded as the 3rd best talent available in last year's deep free agent pool after Lebron and D-Wade...one that also included Amare and Boozer

Where'd you get the idea the Knicks first choice was Bosh ? That is not true, the Knicks met Amare before Bosh was even available.

Look what Donnie Walsh, the President of the Knicks last offseason, said about the team's priorities in free agency.

Knicks wait on LeBron, Wade, Bosh

Walsh said the team is already exploring other free agent plans should LeBron, Wade and/or Bosh say no to the Knicks, saying the team had a plan "B, C, D, E and F."

He also addressed the idea that if the Knicks strike out in free agency with the top three of James, Wade and Bosh, that they might just save their money for next year.

"You could put it off until next year, but it's tough to do, especially with the direction we've been going," Walsh said. "But you can do it. At the very least, you have to start building into place some of the supporting cast now. If we can't get the stars this summer, we're at least going to put some players into place that will complement."

Source: espn.com

Also, look at major sports sites' rankings for free agents in 2010

NBA.com: Lebron James (1), Dwyane Wade (2), Chris Bosh (4), Amare Stoudemire (6).

http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/f ... index.html

Sports Illustrated: Lebron James (1), Dwyane Wade (2), Chris Bosh (3), Amare Stoudemire (5).

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/w ... index.html

Yahoo Sports: Lebron James (1), Dwyane Wade (2), Chris Bosh (3), Amare Stoudemire (4).

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_d ... nba-252642

AOL Sports: Lebron James (1), Dwyane Wade (2), Chris Bosh (3), Amare Stoudemire (6).

http://www.aolnews.com/2010/04/06/top-5 ... ee-agents/

Find me 1 major sports site that puts Amare ahead of Bosh in rankings...there were other sites that were putting Bosh ahead of Amare but I didn't even bother posting the links cuz they're not as well known as the ones I posted. Only Amare fans think he's better

[Murax]

Yungfresh is straight up delusional. Dude, for one NUMBERS don't lie. Amare punished Bosh in season averages vs Miami including a 39+10 game when Miami was tripple teaming Him. Amare Had a stretch where He Had 9 STRIAGHT GAMES of 30+ which was tops in the league. Infact screw numbers, just use common sense. Amare is more explosive, stronger, a WAY better finisher, a better isolation player, etc. The reason Bosh was pursued more was because A) Amare Had knee troubles and teams wern't sure He can hold up for the LIFE of the 5 year deal and B) Teams wern't quite sure how he'd fare without Nash, but that was answered. Anyways I'm not suprised You're the same Guy that thought Boozer and Amare were little apart.




Anyways in moving forward from the ridiculousness of the aforementioend statements, We not got BARON DAVIS. I know I know, people are talking about His health. Well for one his health situation was exxaggerated because he didn't want a bad team to bid on him. If You look at Him last year, on the Cavs He was pretty good, and he averaged 13-7 for the year. On the Knicks, He will not be judged on if He can carry the team. ALL He has to do is orginize the team, settle them down and get carmelo/amare the ball where they need it and he can do that with the best of them. This also allows for the solid Toney Douglas to go to the bench and bolster the 2nd unit. On top of that, He in the pick and roll with Chandler can also be a huge weapon now. Basically down the stretch of games look at at all the options Knicks have of scoring:



Carmelo Isolation: Will work 98% of the time
Amare Isolation: Will draw a double
Pick and roll with Baron/Chandler: Will get a great shot for chandler's roll, b diddy layup as nobody's leaving amare/carmelo to help
Pick and roll with B-Diddy/Amare with Chandler Crashing the boards.

Look at Baron's finish with the cavs last year, this is ALL the Knicks need him to do. I look for Him to bring the "Jason Kidd" factor (on offense) this year. While Kidds a way better defender, B Diddy is a way better scorer so they cancel out.

KNICKS TEAM TO BEAT

[Jaidi]

Sxb we've got Baron on a 1 year slave contract. The man needs to play out to get a big contract and live his high end socialite lifestyle.

We're gonna get this hungry monster back:




BTW John Hollinger, ESPN stat expert also pointed out, even with injuries Baron Davis was one of the best passers in the league last season with the most valuable assists. The guy is a perfect fit for this team, now we have TD coming off the bench as a good ball handler, scorer, Bibby to hit 3's in limited minutes, and SHUMP to back up both positiosn and maybe eventually start at 2. This team is TOP 2 in the East right now and the Conference Finals are a lock.


Baron still got a lot left in the tank. Check this from January 2011:

FEAR THE BEARD!

[fighter]

New york's defense sucks,

They got blown away last season against boston 4-0series during the playoffs by an aging team,

How the hell dey gunna face miami or chicago or boston when their defence still sucks

they r maybe 4th or 5th in the east, they r not coming out of the east,

The most that'll happen is that they make the playoffs

Baron and tyson won't help one iota

[Murax]

jaidi,

Didn't know u were a Knicks fan!


EXACTLY! Baron Davis's problems are nothing new, and He's been the SAME exact way his whole time through the league. When He's unmotivated he sucks. When He's motivated he's something else. He was HORRIBLE with the clips before Blake Griffin. As soon as Blake Griffin showed up last year, he suddenly came alive and played well enough for the Cavs to send Mo Williams AND a #1 pick (which turned out to be 1 overall) to the Clippers for Him. With the Cavs, We saw Him down the stretch just punish Dwayne Wade/Lebron on isolations and ridiculous feeds to higsin, etc. Heck, the Cavs actually were a complete joke before He came and they became somewhat respectable after He came, beating teams like the Knicks, Heat, Orlando, etc. With the KNicks He doesn't even have to do anywhere NEAR as much. Simply bring the ball up and orginize the team in crunch time and orchestrating the offense. He no longer has to go to the lane and finish over the trees. He will get a layup guaranteed and if anyone dare comes to help here come the lobs to Chandler,Amare,Melo.


Btw I absolutely LOVE Iman Shumpert man, this guy is a baller. Infact I truly think He should start ahead of Landry Fields, especially after watching the first preseason game and heres why: Landry simply doesn't have the mental fortitude to play with the ball sticking offense of amare, melo, etc. He would be a MUCH better fit on the second unit which promises to be more of what he's used to a ball movement, free wheeling offense where He can be featured. The thing about Shumpert that I like is he doesn't care who he's playing with He has the balls to take his shots, be aggressive and tell melo/amare Fock off I'm open

Also one thing I love about shumpert is when He DOES get the ball He's AGGRESSIVE. He'll either take and nail the open shot, drive hard and pullup or go all the way to the bucket. With Fields I notice a little hesitation and fear when He gets it playign with amare/carmelo.

[Jaidi]

Murax I'm a lifelong Knickerbocker fan. Rooted for the Knicks since the days of LJ's 4 point play, through the Scott Layden debacle, through the Zeke Thomas reign and finally full circle back to the top now a decade later

I agree with you Shumpert should start. Landry Fields IMO has small upside and that is not an insult to him as a player. He can be a useful role player, very good rebounder at the guard position, who can provide energy, and hopefully better shooting but he is not starting material. He is limitied offensivle, is slow laterally on defense, and his ball handling isn't up to par. But off the bench he could be one of the best league's best backups as the guy accepts his role and doesn't get in the way of the stars, which is something we need. Shumpert on the other hand has major upside. The guy is supremely athletic, oozes with confidence, has a quick first step, good ball handling. If his shot becomes consistent( which was the knock on him in college) the guy can be a major problem. I think he should stay at 2 guard mostly, and I think he will start their sooner than later.

We just signed this guy today [youtube]x2LeXbvYQV8&feature[/youtube] elite 3 point shooter Steve Novak. He doesnt do much of anything else but he will be perfect in a D'Antoni system. He will have wide open corner 3's all day to knock down coming off the bench. The D'Antoni system can make any good 3 point shooter look like an above average player. Think James Jones in Phoenix.

They are also looking for another SF/PF type to fill out the bench. I read James Posey/Al Thornton are some of the guys they're considering. Thornton plays dumb as a bag of rocks and shoots too much Id rather not get him.