Just watched "12 Years A Slave"

[BlackVelvet]

Idi Amin

We can start with this one since you mentioned it first:

Amin was overthrown in 1981, by a Tanzanian backed coup, the reasons were two fold, one was the disastrous war with a much superior, more disciplined Tanzanian army, which ended in total disaster for Uganda, and another was the then Tanzanian leader Nyerere indirectly helping out his pal and long time ally Obote. Sure enough Obote came back to power in 1981 backed by his pal Nyerere, however if there was any hope of respite for the ordinary Ugandans it never was to be there. Yoweri Museveni formed the National Resistance Army as an armed opposition to what he saw as Obote's fraudulent regime. Most of Obote's second term was spent fighting Museveni's armed rebellion from 1981-85. Massacres occured frequently, productive farmlands were destroyed, entire villages burnt down, Uganda's pain got only worse. Obote's obsession with destroying Museveni ensured that the economy suffered badly. And finally Obote was once again thrown out by a short lived military coup and in 1996 Museveni finally claimed the power.

That's 15 years, you also have to consider that in Somalia Caydiid AUN died and Museveni didn't also they don't have the clan dynamics Somalia does i.e. you won't find a sizeable percentage calling Idi Amin a hero.

Next you said Mobutu

After the Cold War, Zaire ceased to be of interest to the US. Thus, when in 1997 neighbouring Rwanda invaded it to flush out extremist Hutu militias, it gave a boost to the anti-Mobutu rebels, who quickly captured the capital, Kinshasa, installed Laurent Kabila as president and renamed the country DR Congo.

Nonetheless, DR Congo's troubles continued. A rift between Mr Kabila and his former allies sparked a new rebellion, backed by Rwanda and Uganda. Angola, Namibia and Zimbabwe took Kabila's side, turning the country into a vast battleground.

Continue reading the main story
DR Congo's conflicts

DR Congolese army soldier watches as men pass him on the street in the rebel zone near Kibati, in the Nord-Kivu region of DR Congo
Enyele rebels in Equateur: Decades-old conflict over fishing rights evolved into ethnic tussle for economic and political power in north-west. Some 200,000 refugees have fled violence since 2009
Ugandan rebels in north-east: Uganda's Lord's Resistance Army (LRA) rebels remain active here and in neighbouring countries, raping and killing
Rwandan rebels in the Kivus: Hutu and Tutsi rebel militia operate in North and South Kivu. The UN oversaw a peace agreement in 2013 with the M23 Movement, which it says is backed by Rwanda and Uganda
Ituri rebels near oil finds: North-eastern province has been quiet since a 2007 peace accord, encouraging oil firms to tap reserves in Lake Albert on Ugandan border.
Coup attempts and sporadic violence heralded renewed fighting in the eastern part of the country in 2008. Rwandan Hutu militias clashed with government forces in April, displacing thousands of civilians.

Another militia under rebel General Laurent Nkunda had signed a peace deal with the government in January, but clashes broke out again in August. Gen Nkunda's forces advanced on government bases and the provincial capital Goma in the autumn, causing civilians and troops to flee while UN peacekeepers tried to hold the line alongside the remaining government forces.

In an attempt to bring the situation under control, the government in January 2009 invited in troops from Rwanda to help mount a joint operation against the Rwandan rebel Hutu militias active in eastern DR Congo.

Rwanda arrested the Hutu militias' main rival, Gen Nkunda, a Congolese Tutsi hitherto seen as its main ally in the area.

In early 2013 the UN secured a regional agreement to end the M23 rebellion

This one is 17 years and counting.


I can't be bothered to show you the rest but you get the picture. As for Caydiid and the USC, read up on it, the elections, Caydiid's victory, Ali Mahdi's decision to go behind Caydiid's back and use the US to do it, the peace talks etc. It's not one big vacuum. I tell you this under the assumption that you actually want to learn about Somali history post '91. If you'd rather like Starkast bark at everything Hawiye then so be it.

Goodnight.

[STARKAST]

Your people destroyed Somalia.

[hydrogen]

Your people destroyed Somalia.

Funny you say that because your clan was the only clan that Siad Barre ordered Jareer men to rape and impregnate the women.

[xaliye123]

Filinku ma hawiye iyo daarood buu ku saabsanaa?

[Based]

Because you're avoiding the diagnosis which is Siad Barre's regime. If you're going to assert that he had mental issues then at last admit the root cause.

Why would you assume a man's mental state has anything to do with the government?

At least you've implicitly accepted the lunacy of Aideed

That's 15 years, you also have to consider that in Somalia Caydiid AUN died and Museveni didn't also they don't have the clan dynamics Somalia does i.e. you won't find a sizeable percentage calling Idi Amin a hero.

1971-Obote overthrown by Idi Amin
1979-Obote returns to power
1985-Okello overthrows Obote again
1986-present-Museveni overthrew Okello and rules to this day

Three successive coups, yet they managed to avoid failing as a state and the rebel leader filled the power vacuum. Why couldn't Aideed?

Next you said Mobutu.This one is 17 years and counting.

And yet Congo still avoids the fate of being branded the world's only failed state and despite all their troubles, they retain at least a semblance of sovereignty and statehood that Somalia does not enjoy.

I can't be bothered to show you the rest but you get the picture. As for Caydiid and the USC, read up on it, the elections, Caydiid's victory, Ali Mahdi's decision to go behind Caydiid's back and use the US to do it, the peace talks etc. It's not one big vacuum. I tell you this under the assumption that you actually want to learn about Somali history post '91. If you'd rather like Starkast bark at everything Hawiye then so be it. Goodnight.

There simply is no picture to get. What you had was a man, who like every successful rebel before him, overthrew a deeply unpopular government and had a glorious opportunity to right all the supposed wrongs of the government he replaced. Unlike the SNM and SSDF, the USC obviously had no plan beyond overthrowing the government and supposedly "chasing" people to Utanga or whatever it is the guys over here were bragging about. They were unable to fill the power vacuum they created, and instead embarked on endless campaigns of clan warfare and entrenching a culture of mooryaanism and warlordism that continue to haunts Somalia. If the USC been able to consolidate power and form an inclusive government with the other extremely willing rebel groups, Somalia would not be in the unenviable position of being the world's poster child of failure.

[abdikarim86]

Your people destroyed Somalia.

On the contrary it was yours Starcunt

[Based]

btw, that's my last comment for the night.

Waa inoo barito

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

I agree with Jasmine that when you compare the relative timescale of Somalia's 20 odd years of civil unrest to that of similar situations across history, we don't have it so bad. Hell, ancient Egypt's first period of anarchy lasted for as long as the united states has existed. The period of anarchy during and just after the French revolution lasted decades, a situation that Napoleon was able to take advantage of. Just as many people died during just the two years of the Korean war as Somalis in the last two decades, although that might be due to the bigger population of Koreans. than Somalis.

My point is Somalia's situation is horrific and embarrassing but it isn't unique and irreversible.

BTW guys I have a question for you. How do you know the natural state of a Somalia isn't anarchy? Who told you Somalis should have a centralised government just because it worked out for the whites?

[Tanker]

Based

All the people arguing aganist you are living in the UK and not in the Post-siyad barre Somalia I guess that says everything

They have probably lost more Family members in the post-siyad barre Hell than I or you did


You are wasting your time sxb

[Colonel]

Based

All the people arguing aganist you are living in the UK and not in the Post-siyad barre Somalia I guess that says everything

[Marques]

Utanga was heaven on earth

Ping-pong playing hobos

[Tanker]

Forget about what any pro-siyad barre person will say about Aideed this is what the chairman of the USC ( Ali Mahdi) and the USC political party had to say about the death of General Aideed 1 August 1996 in Radio Ali Mahdi 2 August 1996 :

Mogadishu Voice of the Somali Republic in Somali

1700 GMT 2 Aug 1996

USC-SSA [United Somali Congress-Somali Salvation Alliance], USC-PM [United Somali Congress-Peace Movement] and USC-SNA [United Somali Congress-Somali National Alliance] today, 2 August, held a meeting under the chairmanship of Mr. Ali Mahdi Muhammad, the President of the Somali Republic, who is also the chairman of the USC-SSA, to discuss the future of the Somali people following the death on 1 August of General Muhammad Farah Aidid, who was an instigator o the civil wars and the stumbling block to the efforts to find a solution to the Somali issue.



After lengthy deliberations the participants of the meeting issued the following declaration:



1. Gen. Muhammad Farah Hasan Aidid, who was responsible for the series of civil wars in the country over a period of four years and eight months, starting from 17 November 1991 to 1 August 1996, died of injuries sustained during a battle in Makka and Medina with the peace-supporting coalition of forces of the USC-SSA, USC-PM and USC- SNA;



2. The Somali people, in general, and warring commu­nities, in particular, are called upon to settle their differences peacefully. The Somali people are fed up with renewed civil war, considering the destruction inherited from the past civil war;



3. The USC-SSA, the USC-PM and USC-SNA, who share the same principles, will continue their efforts aimed at reviving Somali unity and restoring lost nationhood;



4. Aidid supporters are called upon to end the policy of self- proclamation and the use of the gun and are instead called upon to sit at the negotiating table with a view to resolving the Somali issue. The organizations also propose to hold a national conference and then form a broad-based government. The USC-SSA, USC-PM and USC-SNA appeal to the international community to provide us with humanitarian aid and to assist in national reconciliation.

http://www.biyokulule.com/August_1990s(1).htm

[HusseinHassan]

Based

All the people arguing aganist you are living in the UK and not in the Post-siyad barre Somalia I guess that says everything

[GalliumerianSlayer]

Thanks for the link Fah, what a film man

Comes to think how we treated black folks during the Arab-Slave trade...

[STARKAST]

It was honestly a rubbish film. That fassenbander wasn't a good actor.