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Need help understanding Dir clan

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SahanGalbeed
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Re: Need help understanding Dir clan

Postby SahanGalbeed » Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:34 pm

can you read ?
You're talking pure non-sense man

Here is my equally factually unreliable statement
dismiss !

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RoobleAlWaliid
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Re: Need help understanding Dir clan

Postby RoobleAlWaliid » Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:40 pm

Your avatar serves you well. You are as stubborn as a horse. :up: :D

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nord
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Re: Need help understanding Dir clan

Postby nord » Thu Sep 24, 2015 4:15 pm

So dir is basically an alliance rather than real clan

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Re: Need help understanding Dir clan

Postby zumaale » Thu Sep 24, 2015 4:35 pm

Yes Dir scholars identify Isaaq Axmed Maxamed (Sheikh Isaaq) as the grandson of Maxamed Xanaftire Mahe. It is important to note though that I have never met an Isaaq that agrees with this identification.
As we are/were considered the 'natives' of Northern Somali/Somaliland, I am sure we would have maintained oral records of a renowned geriatric Arab Sheikh landing on our shores with a entourage of 40 Arab followers. We Dir do not know of a mythical Arab Sheikh that supposedly married into our clan and whose offspring assimilated into our culture. Furthermore, the patriarch of the Magadle Dir clan could not have existed in the 12/13 century as our presence in the Horn exceeds a millenium; Magadle is a great grandson of Dir and there is no way one of his daughters was married off that late in history.

I am not sure if you are fluent in the Somali Language and to what extent you have interacted with Somalis back home. Take an opportunity to travel through Somaliland if the opportunity presents itself and I assure you there are Isaaqs who identify with being Dir. It is not Dir scholars' that place Isaaq under the Dir but Somali elders as a whole and none of them pay homage or testify to the existence of an Arab Sheikh named Isaaq that came to the Horn to spread Islam among the masses. Gido Ambroso highlights this in Page 1 CLANSHIP, CONFLICT AND REFUGEES: AN INTRODUCTION TO SOMALIS IN THE HORN OF AFRICA.
most Somalis, including some Isaq I interviewed in Hargeisa, agree that they are genealogically part of Dir and that sheikh Isaq was a brother of Issa and (probably) of Samaron (Gadabursi). However, recently in the Arta (Djibouti) conference, they maintained to be a clan-family directly related to the Prophet’s line, claiming the same number of seats as the Darod or the Hawiye, instead of having to share them with other Dir.
Even Western scholars such as I.M. Lewis (Pro-Isaaq) that have commented on the Somali Ethnic group have stated that the Arab origin is nothing but a myth that was propagated for political leverage/prestige when dealing with non-Somalis as evinced by how Isaaq colonial troops lobbied the Brits to classidy them as non-Africans. Even the famous Suldan Sharmake's claim that he was Hashemite was an attempt to attain a noble status when dealing with the Ottoman Turks/ Arabs; Richard Burton thought it was a fanciful claim and highlighted he encountered contradictory traditions as to the origin of the Isaaq clan. On one hand, some of his sources stated that they were Dir whilst others claimed they were Bani Hashim. I am sure none of his sources were 'Southern Dir' and just because we testify to the existence of Isaaq Axmed Maxamed Xiniftere among the Maha does not mean Madoobe, Madaxweyne or Mandaluug do not hold the same opinion.
Lieut. Cruttenden applies the term Edoor (Aydur) to the descendants of Ishak, the children of
Gerhajis, Awal, and Jailah. His informants and mine differ, therefore, toto coelo. According to some,
Dirr was the father of Aydur; others make Dirr (it has been written Tir and Durr) to have been the name
of the Galla family into which Shaykh Ishak married.
The best way to settle this saga is to resort to wide scale genetic testing to prove or disprove the claim to Bani Hashim ancestry. As you are already well versed in the test results of individual Snetters, others that have been sent directly to your Abtirsi website or through 23andme, I think it is safe to say that the evidence being gathered points towards a Horn of African origin for the Isaaq and if they do turn out to be mainly haplogroup T then the jig is up.

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Re: Need help understanding Dir clan

Postby zumaale » Thu Sep 24, 2015 4:41 pm

So dir is basically an alliance rather than real clan
:?

We claim descent from a common ancestor and that can be put to the test through DNA ancestry tests to determine the percentage of Sheegatos we have among us. My stance is that a Dir clan member should belong to haplogroup T1a or else their ancestor was adopted somewhere down the line or they are a recent sheegato.

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Re: Need help understanding Dir clan

Postby zumaale » Thu Sep 24, 2015 4:48 pm

Mahe Dir- ( Biimaal, Surre, Isaaq,Dabruube, Barsuuq, Magaadle, Quranyow-Garre etc.)
Madaxweyne Dir - Gurgura, Akisho(Gurre), Gariire , Jarso, Jiido , Layiile, Aw-Siciid , Warday etc.
Madoobe Dir - (Ciise etc.)
Mandaluug Dir - (Gadabuursi and many Mandaluug in Ethiopia, Somalia, Kenya. I heard about Isaaq, Axmed, Xassan, Xussein, Jire, Geelwaaqle, Irable, Masalaley, all Mandaluugs.

There are some cases that say there was a fifth son named Qaldho(Noole iyo qaar kale Afrata Qaaluu) and that Mandaluug falls under Mahe.

Dir waa naaynays and his real name is Abubakar
Cuz, you forget the clan (Bajimal) of the current AS leader under Maha Direed.

Furthermore, I am not aware of any Dir priestly clans under the Sheekhal umbrella, enlighten me bro. I heard of such claims but never took them seriously because the evidence is limited to say the least. People would often confuse the Surre Faqi Cumar and the Sheekhal Faqi Cumar. They are two completely different clans, Surres come under the Xeer title in parts of K5 whilst the Aw Qutub have always been Sheekhal.

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nord
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Re: Need help understanding Dir clan

Postby nord » Thu Sep 24, 2015 5:09 pm

So dir is basically an alliance rather than real clan
:?

We claim descent from a common ancestor and that can be put to the test through DNA ancestry tests to determine the percentage of Sheegatos we have among us. My stance is that a Dir clan member should belong to haplogroup T1a or else their ancestor was adopted somewhere down the line or they are a recent sheegato.
And what do you base that on :? ? A few 23andme results of garxajis. In my mind (without proof), dir would be 50-65% E if tested. Isaaq itself - H awal, H jeclo, majority E

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Re: Need help understanding Dir clan

Postby zumaale » Thu Sep 24, 2015 5:32 pm

So dir is basically an alliance rather than real clan
:?

We claim descent from a common ancestor and that can be put to the test through DNA ancestry tests to determine the percentage of Sheegatos we have among us. My stance is that a Dir clan member should belong to haplogroup T1a or else their ancestor was adopted somewhere down the line or they are a recent sheegato.
And what do you base that on :? ? A few 23andme results of garxajis. In my mind (without proof), dir would be 50-65% E if tested. Isaaq itself - H awal, H jeclo, majority E
Mate, Somali natives tested in Dire Dawa turned out to be over 80% T1a. Another study into Djibouti Somalians found only 25% of them tested positive for E1b1b. Furthermore, the Gadabursis, Ciises, Surres that are on 23andme have turned out to be haplogroup T1a. There is a clear trend developing among subclans of Dir. I and a Surre (Southern Dir) acquaintance of mine also took the test and we both turned out to be T1a.

The only Isaaq subclans whereby several members have taken the test are Garxajis and Sacad Muuse. Garxajis are overwhelmingly T without a doubt, Sacad Muuse are mainly E1b1b. Habar Jeclo possess both haplogroup T and E1b1b lineages, if it turns out that Maxamaed Abokoor are mainly T1a and Muuse Abokoor mainly E1b1b then the majority are T because Maxamed Abokoor are numerically the greater of the two. Nonetheless, more tests results are required before any conclusions can be reached for HJ.

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Re: Need help understanding Dir clan

Postby X.Playa » Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:02 pm

Zumaale,

both of your quotations are baseless and manufactured few Isaaq can't change a 800 years old tradition of Sheeikh Isxaaq , and your other statement about Lieut Cruttenden is pure fabrication , Cruttenden never applied the term Edoor to Isaaq , he stated that the Daaroods call Isaaq Idoor and the Isaaq in similar manner have their own moniker for the Daarood.
most Somalis, including some Isaq I interviewed in Hargeisa, agree that they are genealogically part of Dir and that sheikh Isaq was a brother of Issa and (probably) of Samaron (Gadabursi). However, recently in the Arta (Djibouti) conference, they maintained to be a clan-family directly related to the Prophet’s line, claiming the same number of seats as the Darod or the Hawiye, instead of having to share them with other Dir
Lieut. Cruttenden applies the term Edoor (Aydur) to the descendants of Ishak, the children of
Gerhajis, Awal, and Jailah. His informants and mine differ, therefore, toto coelo. According to some,
Dirr was the father of Aydur; others make Dirr (it has been written Tir and Durr) to have been the name
of the Galla family into which Shaykh Ishak married.

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RoobleAlWaliid
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Re: Need help understanding Dir clan

Postby RoobleAlWaliid » Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:31 pm

Every clan is a confederation to some extent, but Dir is more by blood. This is why the Quranyow and many Dirs that were assimilated into other clans and regions still know their roots and abtirsi.
Yes Dir scholars identify Isaaq Axmed Maxamed (Sheikh Isaaq) as the grandson of Maxamed Xanaftire Mahe. It is important to note though that I have never met an Isaaq that agrees with this identification.
I have met some that acknowledge it, but of course they are just a minority compared to the ones that identify with being a stand alone confederation, because it has been deeply ingrained. These are recent developments even the one man many Somalis hold dear, I.M. Lewis(to some a saint on Somali history). He even addressed this topic, it is by means of becoming prestige. Now they can keep spreading this propaganda around, but by no means will other Somalis fall for it.

-The Dhulbahante Poem
-Genetics
etc...

Dir a standalone clan without the Isaaq sub-clan, it's big enough and most of them are found in Ethiopia. Me, I give no shits who they affiliate with, but I'm all for the truth and to me it looks like a stab in the back to their Maxamed brothers in the south, who their people have relied on for protection for decades.

They want to be seen as a standalone clan for political reasons and aspirations nothing more.

They keep forging logic. This desperation is so bad it has lead them to banning books and denying genetics. :lol:
Image


Here a perfect example by I.M. Lewis
Image
Image

One can easily tell they move like a sub-clan, but how they view it is up to themselves.

They are Maxamed Xiniftire Mahad Dir.

Maxamed = Axmed . It is the same name, but change in agnatic descent occurred to claim a man from Iraq(Banu Axmed). Although they still unconsciously believe in their Muxamad/Axmed ancestor.

One can't keep hiding from the truth.

And don't say ''No we won't shame our ancestors by examining their tombs''

Have a good day.
Last edited by RoobleAlWaliid on Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

zumaale
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Re: Need help understanding Dir clan

Postby zumaale » Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:35 pm

X.Playa

Both of the quotes that I posted can be found online with relative ease and they were authored by Ambroso and Burton.

No need to drag this argument out. One thing that cannot be debated is the genetics of the Somali ethnic group and despite your assertion that it is a Jewish conspiracy in a previous thread, it has the power to bury all myths once and for all.

Thus, I invite you to do the advanced full y-chromosome scan with me and let us observe if we are both Bani Hashim or just some random T1a lineage that made its way to the Horn of Africa.

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Re: Need help understanding Dir clan

Postby LobsterUnit » Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:44 pm

The author of the blog anthro madness details how both the isaaq and darood lineages are littered with historical fabrications and errors.please have an objective read of that.there are kneegrows on this lineages who did not exist or even have children.he does say that the Isaac Newton clan is slightly more legit than the caku ya darood(kneegrows couldn't make up a lineage).as for the topic,jamaacatu dna is the truth.

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Re: Need help understanding Dir clan

Postby sahal80 » Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:41 pm

Kkkk dir and their never ending claims of others!

garre and jiido totally refuse this one-side claim

Garre say a man of quranyow has stole she-camel from a dir man, later the dir man have came to him/his clan with some tactics in order to get back his she-camel....he told them that quranyow are dir kkkkk


Garre of kenya/ethiopia may claim of having arab origin bla bla but they never claim dir

Jido even has its own separate language how can they be dir when they sound an old stock

I have met a kenyan quraanyow girl who was telling me that shes hawiye and not oromo or rahanwayn

I said to hee stick with rahanwan since its your 4. Clan


southren garres r only confused between samaale and digil

they have issued an statement after the UN adopted them within the digil iyo mifle list claiming that they r not rahanwan rather hawiye

garre r politically allied with hawiye as rahanwan backs their rivals, jiido so thats why they run lower shabelle as governors and not other digil...now its up to sharif hassan but he is more like that he will use them for his agenda

Garre
http://arabic.alshahid.net/columnists/84781

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Re: Need help understanding Dir clan

Postby RoobleAlWaliid » Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:59 pm

Yes we should take your sand n*gger site serious.

Quranyow are Dir by ancestry. No one mentioned Garre as a whole.

Language is language, ancestry is ancestry.

Boy on Abtirsi forum, Quranyow is Dir
http://www.abtirsi.com/forum/viewtopic. ... irsiLang=1

Girl on Ummahforum, Quranyow is Dir.
http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.p ... Arab/page2

Another source stating Quranyow is Dir in ancestry.
Image

Along with the source on the first page I already shared.
Image

It's hard to swallow Sahal, it's normal.

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Re: Need help understanding Dir clan

Postby zumaale » Thu Sep 24, 2015 11:06 pm

:lol:

We love you too Sahal Cadeey :rose: .

An Arabic forum where for all we know you could have made that thread :lol: beats the oral abtirsi of a Quranyow man or the oral history of Garre recorded by an eminent anthropologist such as Gunther Schlee? Why the hell would Schlee misrepresent what was conveyed to him by Garre elders and falsely classify the Quraanyow as Dir? Wait, I know what you are going to say next, Gunther Schlee is the pen name of a Dir anthropologist masquerading as a Deutschlander. Freshy Fooqal Freshy!

Everybody knows that the Digil are a confederation who do not speak the same language. The Garre Koffar, Tunni, Jiido, Geledi, Dabarre and Shanta Caleemod do not even use the same tongue let alone have the same origins. Next time you meet a Jiido elder ask him for his abtirsi and then come back to me. In the meantime, I am going to have a shower to rid myself of your polluting presence in this thread.


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