Somalisizz -- the venerable muslimah!

[dhuusa_deer]

Somalisizz,

There is no doubt that you are venerable muslimah and Islamic expert. Not only that but you LOVE what you do and take great pride in doing it. Every muslimah wants to be like you. Selfish soldier of God, no 1 can question your motives. You are of a rare breed, it is good to have you with us.

You're pious and flexible...undogmatic and dogmatic... resolute and infirm. You lead by example, something in great dearth these days. You are sincerely one remarkable and inspiring Muslimah. May God bless your soul and grant you a place in jennah al-ferdows!

Your thought provoking, insightful, knowledge imparting, wisdomful and wonderous posts have been englightening and refreshing. You have saved many from the path of hell, veered others to the righteous path and gave them life-time lasting moral and religious compass and still yet valiantly rescued many others from the clutches of SATAN. In fact you have went head-to-head, toe-to-toe with the Devil himself and YOU saved the day! Allahu Akbar! We are all indebted to you Somalisizz. So thank you from the bottom of our hearts for your tireless, slavish and unyielding hard work. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

But I know, nay every1 knows, that you work for Allah. Not for any respect, gratitude or any pittances you may get from petty humans. You are slave God -- the uncreated creator, unmoved mover, the creator of the heavens and earth and everything living. It is for this reason I come to YOU for an answer to a question I've been grappling with and it touches on Apostasy and the stigma attached to it in Darul Islam.

Don't feel overburdened...ambulances with police escorts are on the stand-by to deliver to you the latest editions of Sahih Bhukari (Mr. Bhukari will be smiling and giving thumbs up from his grave) and Muslim. Firefighters also on the stand-by ready to dose you off in case you catch fire. Bottom line, you should have plenty of help in case you need any. But I know you won't, I have faith in you. With that said here is my question:

The Quran says there is no compulsion in religion and that every1 has 'free will' to decide what to believe. A believe in God and Islam can not be forced or enforced through threats of death or social isolation but must be volitional act profession. So why is there stigma attached to apostasy across the muslim world and throught the ages?

More fittingly why is apostasy a crime punishable by death, with choices for excution consisting of Crucifixion (oh mama mia! ), lapidation and beheading? Why as an apostate can't I profess my change of faith among my ppl -- muslims -- without fear of severe social ostracism or death?

The mic is yours Somalisizz

[LionHeart-112]

So this is why u were away the last 3 hours. I thought u were taking a break from your usual stupidity.

We all know SomalisiZz is a special sister with lots of Islamic knowledge.

[Miss_Killa_Foodstampz]

^^^ sax yaa akhi

[dhuusa_deer]

[quote="LionHeart-112"]
We all know SomalisiZz is a special sister with lots of Islamic knowledge.[/quote]

yes indeed and that is precisely why I came to her for an answer.

[ill-seed]

^^^ i don't trust ur motives towards this pious sister. what u up to DD

[dhuusa_deer]

[quote="ill-seed"]^^^ i don't trust ur motives towards this pious sister. what u up to DD[/quote]

You don't need trust in my motives, that is extreneous to the issue.

I wanna know why a faith system that says we all have free will and believing is not a compulsion (Quran: there is no compulsion in religion) has apostasy laws. Why punish some1 for saying no thank this faith system is not for me?

[Cawar]

"More fittingly why is apostasy a crime punishable by death, with choices for excution consisting of Crucifixion (oh mama mia! ), lapidation and beheading? Why as an apostate can't I profess my change of faith among my ppl -- muslims -- without fear of severe social ostracism or death"

Although your sincerity in asking this question approaches Zero, I wanna tell you this:

You seize to be part of the people you're refering to as "my ppl--muslims" the moment you declare your are not a believer, isnt that the common denominator between you and those ppl???

Secondly and more imp. who said you will be stoned or even killed if you renounced your faith?? is it in the quran?? in the ahadith?? if yes, go ahead and tell us, i will be more than happy to comply with them!!

[ill-seed]

DD.the world is governed by absolute truths and religion is the grand narative that allows us to make meaning of the big universe, which is obviously beyond us to comprehend in any meaningful way


its one thing to be sceptical, but ur just ignorent. u refuse to even consider the existence of god.

[dhuusa_deer]

[quote="Cawar"]"More fittingly why is apostasy a crime punishable by death, with choices for excution consisting of Crucifixion (oh mama mia! ), lapidation and beheading? Why as an apostate can't I profess my change of faith among my ppl -- muslims -- without fear of severe social ostracism or death"

Although your sincerity in asking this question approaches Zero, I wanna tell you this:

You seize to be part of the people you're refering to as "my ppl--muslims" the moment you declare your are not a believer, isnt that the common denominator between you and those ppl???

Secondly and more imp. who said you will be stoned or even killed if you renounced your faith?? is it in the quran?? in the ahadith?? if yes, go ahead and tell us, i will be more than happy to comply with them!! [/quote]

Why get held up on my sincerity, a far greater question and subject is on the table.


My ppl = somalis, I have a right to call them my ppl becuz I hail from them and my two parents are bonafide somalis. I challenge to find me an instance in somalia's long and confusing history where 'somalinimo' was dependent on being a muslim?

I didn't say I WOULD be stoned but there is great chance I will be. There is precedent in the muslim world for killing apostates. There are apostasy laws, what are they for if not to punish apostates? And yes both the quran (method of killing apostates include lapidation, beheading and crucifiction) and hadith say apostasy is punishable crime.

Why is apostasy a crime in a religion that says there is no compulsion and we all have free will and hence can choose what to and not believe?

I will post the hadiths and quranic verses later if you so desire.

[dhuusa_deer]

[quote="ill-seed"]DD.the world is governed by absolute truths and religion is the grand narative that allows us to make meaning of the big universe, which is obviously beyond us to comprehend in any meaningful way

[/quote]

There are NO absolute truths. I agree that Islam provides or tries to provide a meaning for our existance but it is just one of many religions and systems.

If the universe is beyond our ability to comprehend it then how did you comprehend it's incomprehensibility? For some1 to say something is beyond our faculties to comprehension, he/she would first have to comprehend first it's incomprehensibility. Bottom line is we don't know what is beyon our ability to understand it, so saying the universe is beyond our comprehension is foolish.

"ts one thing to be sceptical, but ur just ignorent. u refuse to even consider the existence of god"

I don't refuse the existance of God, never did. Just don't believe in its existance for there is no reasons or evidence.

[dhuusa_deer]

The Quran and Apostasy

"But those who reject Faith after they accepted it, and then go on adding to their defiance of Faith,- never will their repentance be accepted; for they are those who have gone astray”. -- 3:5

”Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief,- except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith - but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty.” -- 16: 106 (this 1 gives me the jitters)

"You will not find any people who believe in Allaah and the Last Day, making friendship with those who oppose Allaah and His Messenger…” -- 58:22

“O you who believe! Take not as (your) bitaanah (advisors, consultants, protectors, helpers, friends, etc.) those outside your religion (pagans, Jews, Christians, and hypocrites) since they will not fail to do their best to corrupt you. They desire to harm you severely. Hatred has already appeared from their mouths, but what their breasts conceal is far worse. Indeed We have made clear to you the aayaat (proofs, evidence, verses), if you understand. Lo! You are the ones who love them but they love you not, and you believe in all the Scriptures [i.e., you believe in the Tawraat and the Injeel, while they disbelieve in your Book (the Qur’aan)]. And when they meet you, they say, ‘We believe.’ But when they are alone, they bite the tips of their fingers at you in rage. Say: ‘Perish in your rage. Certainly Allaah knows what is in the breasts (all the secrets).’ If a good befalls you, it grieves them, but some evil overtakes you, they rejoice at it…” -- 3: 118-120

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” -- 9:29

"“It is not (proper) for the Prophet and those who believe to ask Allaah’s forgiveness for the mushrikeen, even though they be of kin, after it has become clear to them that they are the dwellers of the Fire (because they died in state of disbelief).” (oh moma!) -- 9:113

[dhuusa_deer]

The Sahih Hadiths and Apostasy

Sahih Bukhari Vol.6, book61, number 577:

I heard the Prophet saying, "In the last days (of the world) there will appear young people with foolish thoughts and ideas. They will give good talks, but they will go out of Islam as an arrow goes out of its game, their faith will not exceed their throats. So, wherever you find them, kill them, for there will be a reward for their killers on the Day of Resurrection."

Sahih Bukhari Vol.4, book 63, number 260:

Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

Sahih Bukhari Vol.4, book 63, number 261:

Eight men of the tribe of 'Ukil came to the Prophet and then they found the climate of Medina unsuitable for them. So, they said, "O Allah's Apostle! Provide us with some milk." Allah's Apostle said, "I recommend that you sh ould join the herd of camels." So they went and drank the urine and the milk of the camels (as a medicine) till they became healthy and fat. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels, and they became unbelievers after they were Muslims. When the Prophet was informed by a shouter for help, he sent some men in their pursuit, and before the sun rose high, they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut off. Then he ordered for nails, which were heated and passed over their eyes, and they were left in the Harra (i.e. rocky land in Medina). They asked for water, and nobody provided them with water till they died.

Sunan Abu-Dawud book 38, number 4348:

”Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas:
A blind man had a slave-mother who used to abuse the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and disparage him. He forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but she did not give up her habit. One night she began to slander the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and abuse him. So he took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) was informed about it.
He assembled the people and said: I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up. Jumping over the necks of the people and trembling the man stood up.
He sat before the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and said: Apostle of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.
Thereupon the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood".

Sunan Abu-Dawud book 38, number 4359:

Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas:
The verse "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Apostle, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite side or exile from the land...most merciful" was revealed about polytheists. If any of them repents before they are arrested, it does not prevent from inflicting on him the prescribed punishment, which he deserves.”

[LionHeart-112]

This is religious treason. When some1 comits a treason against the U.S or defects to the enemy during a war, he is not only jailed for life but killed....

If this doesn't help you understand, then nothing will..

[Demure]

Dhusa, it's funny how you repeatedly ask those types of questions, not out of sincere need to know as to provoke and get certain responses.

You very well know why people like you are treated the way they are, even though Islam is tolerant of other religions, soceities aren't, specially when the most valued component of that society is Islam.

Since you denounced our religion and you obviously are such a smart perceptive guy. My question for you is; why do you even still bother with us and try so hard to explain yourself, Are you having second thoughts and just want reassurances? If so, there's really no need to be so mocking and condescinding when you're talking to the sister.

Be nice and I'm sure she'll be more than happy to answer your questions and welcome you back to Islam

[LionHeart-112]

"My question for you is; why do you even still bother with us and try so hard to explain yourself"

THIS IS THE QUESTION EVERY1'S BEEN ASKING HIM. He will not answer...