yusuf's ancestor Ram Naag.

[zumaale]

Abti, overwhelming majority of Habar Jeclo who have taken the tests got the typical Somali E-V32.

At least HALF of Habar Yonis get T.[/b]

This is STRICTLY from father to son, the true "ABTIRIS" aka "perfect name count."

Just from that we know at least half of Habar Yonis and Habar Jeclo have not shared a father in at least thousands of years (even before the formation of the Somali "ethnic" group).

Teeda kale, the irony of Xplaya just dawned on me.

He is the most resistant to the Dir label, yet he comes from the particular community within Isaaq (the Habar Yoonis) with the most T-carriers.

T ONLY shows up in Dir out of the Somali people. For example the Ciise Madoobe of Djibouti carry T at 80%.

I don't know if you understand genetics, but that means a Habar Yonis who caries T (almost half of them) has a more recent father with Ciise Madoobe Direed then they do with Havar Jeclo.

That's the true and perfect "abtiris."

Where are you getting your stats from?

There has been no representative study of Somali clans. However, going by people's matches on 23andme, HY are overwhelmingly T whilst the Habar Jeclo also has several T individuals, possibly all are Maxamed Abokor (Xildiid and Yusuf's subclan), they form the majority of the Habar Jeclos in Togdheer and Saaxil. A Toljeclo, former traditional leaders of the Isaaq clan, clan member also carries haplogroup T on FTDNA. T is quite ubiquitous among Isaaqs in general but a sizeable percentage also belong to E-V32.

It is also not given that T is the genetic marker of Dir even though the limited evidence points that way as it is found at high percentages among those clans that have a connection to Dir. Moreover, the TMRCA of the Somali Y16897 T subclade looks relatively like it is the result of a recent founder effect (less than 2k) indicating that it is more of 'clan' lineage than the more distantly diverse E-V32 lineages. However, we will never know until a few more Somali Y16897 BIg Y samples are obtained. My hunch is that clan identities that were formed after the adoption of Islam are more blood based but older clan identities such as Samaale, Darood, Dir etc. might be a mixture of myth and blood.

Lastly, T might not be common among Darood, but it appears to be more common among Hawiye as it is found among Karanles and Hiiraabs.

Speak on Darood especially Marehan EV32s.

Don't know much as most of y'all are on 23andme. For Qabil lineages, it is best to test on FTDNA. Wouldn't be surprised if many of y'all were closely related to other Daroods, as in sharing an ancestor less than 2k years ago. However, like other Darood clans, MX appears to also contain individuals with haplogroup J. As things stand, I think Darood have the most HG J individuals among the umbrella clans.

[Xildiiid]

Zuumaale,

I was proving a point to Voltage.

Obviously conclusions can’t be made on limited test results, however there are emerging trends and there’s a possibility deeper STR test could either disprove or reaffirm those trends.

[ReturnOfMariixmaan]

Where are you getting your stats from?

There has been no representative study of Somali clans. However, going by people's matches on 23andme, HY are overwhelmingly T whilst the Habar Jeclo also has several T individuals, possibly all are Maxamed Abokor (Xildiid and Yusuf's subclan), they form the majority of the Habar Jeclos in Togdheer and Saaxil. A Toljeclo, former traditional leaders of the Isaaq clan, clan member also carries haplogroup T on FTDNA. T is quite ubiquitous among Isaaqs in general but a sizeable percentage also belong to E-V32.

It is also not given that T is the genetic marker of Dir even though the limited evidence points that way as it is found at high percentages among those clans that have a connection to Dir. Moreover, the TMRCA of the Somali Y16897 T subclade looks relatively like it is the result of a recent founder effect (less than 2k) indicating that it is more of 'clan' lineage than the more distantly diverse E-V32 lineages. However, we will never know until a few more Somali Y16897 BIg Y samples are obtained. My hunch is that clan identities that were formed after the adoption of Islam are more blood based but older clan identities such as Samaale, Darood, Dir etc. might be a mixture of myth and blood.

Lastly, T might not be common among Darood, but it appears to be more common among Hawiye as it is found among Karanles and Hiiraabs.

Speak on Darood especially Marehan EV32s.

Don't know much as most of y'all are on 23andme. For Qabil lineages, it is best to test on FTDNA. Wouldn't be surprised if many of y'all were closely related to other Daroods, as in sharing an ancestor less than 2k years ago. However, like other Darood clans, MX appears to also contain individuals with haplogroup J. As things stand, I think Darood have the most HG J individuals among the umbrella clans.

Word. That's cool. Rather be Somali bro. Expand on your theory on the preIslamic clans forming. I think Dir was the first to gain Islam along with Darood who they converted. Hence the maternal mother myth. Your mother teaches you the diin. In my opinion I would like to hear more.

[zumaale]

Speak on Darood especially Marehan EV32s.

Don't know much as most of y'all are on 23andme. For Qabil lineages, it is best to test on FTDNA. Wouldn't be surprised if many of y'all were closely related to other Daroods, as in sharing an ancestor less than 2k years ago. However, like other Darood clans, MX appears to also contain individuals with haplogroup J. As things stand, I think Darood have the most HG J individuals among the umbrella clans.

Word. That's cool. Rather be Somali bro. Expand on your theory on the preIslamic clans forming. I think Dir was the first to gain Islam along with Darood who they converted. Hence the maternal mother myth. Your mother teaches you the diin. In my opinion I would like to hear more.

We might never know the truth as we descend from, sad to say, an illiterate society. Open a European History Book and with relative ease, one can read about when Visigoths expanded into Spain and when they abandoned Arianism etc. The timelines are not that off either because there are multiple primary written historical sources covering that era.

I think what differentiated Somalis, Afars and Saho from other Cushites such as the more isolated Oromos, Sidamo etc. was exposure to Islam, coastal influences on the Northern Horn and contacts with Ethio-Semitic speaking people (ES). ES does not solely refer to Christian Habashas as the settled centre of the Harar State was Muslim Habasha (Agrobba, Hararis etc).

As for the formation of umbrella Somali clans, they must be a mixture of myth and blood in my opinion. Look at the Somali clan concept of Afarta (Insert Reer) iyo Adeerkod etc. Is it a coincidence that this custom is common place among many subclans. Possibly, with the added glue of Islam, the ancestors of Maxa Tiri speaking Somalis coalesced in a particular area (Northern/Somalia prolly) and began intermarrying among each other leading to the formation of a patrilineal clan based society. The umbrella clans with un-Islamic names might have originally had a confederate clan structure prior to the formation of blood based clans after the adoption of Islam. That is one random theory anyway.

All in all, Allahu aclam!

[LeJusticier]

Salah Malay diray amused to hear Dir and irir first time during his short visit in east Africa, I think it was around second war world
Irir inaan nahay oo Hawiye haybta nagu raaco
Iyo inaanu Isixaaq haybta nahay la hubsandoonee
Nimankeer humbaalaynayow waysku soo noqonee

[Jaamacbuuhoodle]

Dadka way inay fahmaan STR's ( Short tandem repeat )
way is badalaan 300 ama 250 sanba .

Cilmi ahaan Macquul maaha in Dhulbahante iyo Mareexaan ama Ogaadeen iyo Maareexaan STR isku mid wadaa noqdo ,

In yar oo Xulufo ah qabiil kasta way ku jiraan waana arrin la wada ogyahay .

Tusaale : reerka Dhulbahante nimaan lagu soo daray baanu Ognahay oo hadda reero waaweyn noqday
( maanta iyaguna way iis Ogyihiin anaguna waanu Ognahay ) .

Walaahi Shaki igama jiro in aniga iyo General : Maslax Maxamed Siyaad Barre haddii lanaga qaado DNA test ,
Isku natiijo noqon doono aniga iyo Jeneraal Maslax ,,
( Reerka Daarood Ismaaciil 90% waa E-m35 kana sii ah E-V32 ) .

Laakin Reerkii wacanaa ee reer Sheekh Isxaaq shaki baa kala galay kkkkkkkkk Gaar baa reerka Dir kusoo laabtay ( Sida Garxajis iyo gayb habar Jeclo ah ) markii la ogaaday najiida DNA .

[skywalker25]

Dadka way inay fahmaan STR's ( Short tandem repeat )
way is badalaan 300 ama 250 sanba .

Cilmi ahaan Macquul maaha in Dhulbahante iyo Mareexaan ama Ogaadeen iyo Maareexaan STR isku mid wadaa noqdo ,

In yar oo Xulufo ah qabiil kasta way ku jiraan waana arrin la wada ogyahay .

Tusaale : reerka Dhulbahante nimaan lagu soo daray baanu Ognahay oo hadda reero waaweyn noqday
( maanta iyaguna way iis Ogyihiin anaguna waanu Ognahay ) .

Walaahi Shaki igama jiro in aniga iyo General : Maslax Maxamed Siyaad Barre haddii lanaga qaado DNA test ,
Isku natiijo noqon doono aniga iyo Jeneraal Maslax ,,
( Reerka Daarood Ismaaciil 90% waa E-m35 kana sii ah E-V32 ) .

Laakin Reerkii wacanaa ee reer Sheekh Isxaaq shaki baa kala galay kkkkkkkkk Gaar baa reerka Dir kusoo laabtay ( Sida Garxajis iyo gayb habar Jeclo ah ) markii la ogaaday najiida DNA .

You make no sense.
For example in one sentence, you admit your own sub clan of Dhulbahnte has added outsiders who are now huge in numbers. Then just below you claim a Marexaan - it’s on record have added midgaans - will be, with 100% certainty, related to you.

If you know your own Dhulbahnte have outsiders amongst you, how can you be that certain about Marexaan.


Let’s even go along with this nonsense about a question mark being over Isaaq being Dir or not. It still doesn’t change the fact we Isaaq have always moved more like family than any Darods. If you look at the facts on the ground in today’s Somalia. Darod is not united as friends let alone family. What use is some blood relation going back 1000’s years if you can’t offer each other a bucket of water. What use is it trying to prove Isaaq is not related by blood, if the end result is we behave and act like family in unison? If we level Las anood tomorrow the Majreteen would not offer you a hospital for your wounded let alone fight alongside You. However, if Majerteeb level Cerigabo, the Sacad Muse in Gabiley would be at the frontline with in the first day..

[theyuusuf143]

Salah Malay diray amused to hear Dir and irir first time during his short visit in east Africa, I think it was around second war world
Irir inaan nahay oo Hawiye haybta nagu raaco
Iyo inaanu Isixaaq haybta nahay la hubsandoonee
Nimankeer humbaalaynayow waysku soo noqonee

Biciide ma kulbuu Dir wax ku biirin lahaa, biciide waa toyboys islaamo aan dhalin baa magaalooyin ka waaweyn idinku haysta, guri kasta hargeisa biciid baa jooga qanjuhu daaleen siduu kubado aanu lahayn u naqasaynayey . Beri dhaw dar allaad u dabar go,aysan ba . Adigaagas waxan u malaynaya inad habar Chinese ah oo already Xi jinping ka muday saliida kaasii dayso.

[Timiro1999]

Dadka way inay fahmaan STR's ( Short tandem repeat )
way is badalaan 300 ama 250 sanba .

Cilmi ahaan Macquul maaha in Dhulbahante iyo Mareexaan ama Ogaadeen iyo Maareexaan STR isku mid wadaa noqdo ,

In yar oo Xulufo ah qabiil kasta way ku jiraan waana arrin la wada ogyahay .

Tusaale : reerka Dhulbahante nimaan lagu soo daray baanu Ognahay oo hadda reero waaweyn noqday
( maanta iyaguna way iis Ogyihiin anaguna waanu Ognahay ) .

Walaahi Shaki igama jiro in aniga iyo General : Maslax Maxamed Siyaad Barre haddii lanaga qaado DNA test ,
Isku natiijo noqon doono aniga iyo Jeneraal Maslax ,,
( Reerka Daarood Ismaaciil 90% waa E-m35 kana sii ah E-V32 ) .

Laakin Reerkii wacanaa ee reer Sheekh Isxaaq shaki baa kala galay kkkkkkkkk Gaar baa reerka Dir kusoo laabtay ( Sida Garxajis iyo gayb habar Jeclo ah ) markii la ogaaday najiida DNA .

Adeer adigiibaa is burinaya haday dadku is "badalaan 300 ama 250"
Sideed u sugtaa in HJ iyo HY isku mid u noqdaan ma qiyaasi kartaa inta boqol ee sanadood ee ka soo wareegtay SH. Isaxaaq.
Anigu ma aaminsani in Isaaqu yahay Dir, teeda kale Dirku ma reer layska galaa sida Daarodka iyo Hawiyaha.
Waxaan maqlay reero habeenkiina Daarod sheegta maalintiina Hawiye kolba dhinacay dabayshu la qabato lol

[gurey25]

this is not evidence of anything.
Reality is allot more complex, our genealogical traditions are not quite accurate,
our current way of looking at clans is very different to our ancestors.

I wouldnt be surprised if the first 10 generations of isaaq , comprised the decedants of shiekh isaaq and his large entourage as well as the local mahe dir clans all under the isaaq umbrella.

Even then matrlinial decent was important so all would consider themselves Dir, because they were for all intents of purposes dir till they outgrew this 400 years later.

So all the fadhi ku dhirir about clans is all bullshit, because no one is looking at the big picture.

[theyuusuf143]

Wadaad kaasi haduuba jiray macalin dugsi wax ka weyn oo uu ahaa ma jirin, isaaqu dadkaa direed ee dhulka degan bay uunbay ahaayen ama u badnaayen kadibna isku xer bay noqdeen. Wax alaale wixii juffidayda reer daahir ka shisheeya oo dhan waa myth ,

qiyaamaha layma Soo taago in Habarjeclo xabashiyadi dhashay. Haday u fogaato Oromay ahayd use your common sense waayo amxaarada isku xuduud ba ma nihin . Xerta isaaqa qaarba dhinac bay ku qayili jireen, anaga HJ inantaas baa bunka iyo canjeelada u dubi jirtay, weligayo isku dheri baanu ahayn oo halkaa canjeelo baan wada cunaynay laakiin meel aan ku wada dhalanay lama garanayo .

Isaaqa kale jajaban baa wax u walaaqi jirtay, markaa yagu xoogaa scattered bay noqdeen xertoodii dawlada hoosaa ka xumaatay.

[X.Playa]

this is not evidence of anything.
Reality is allot more complex, our genealogical traditions are not quite accurate,
our current way of looking at clans is very different to our ancestors.

I wouldnt be surprised if the first 10 generations of isaaq , comprised the decedants of shiekh isaaq and his large entourage as well as the local mahe dir clans all under the isaaq umbrella.

Even then matrlinial decent was important so all would consider themselves Dir, because they were for all intents of purposes dir till they outgrew this 400 years later.

So all the fadhi ku dhirir about clans is all bullshit, because no one is looking at the big picture.

Why even look that farther back? During colonial east Africa the dhulbahante came under the Ishaqia community. That was mere 80 years ago during the poll tax isaaq revolt.

[dalalos101]

Dadka way inay fahmaan STR's ( Short tandem repeat )
way is badalaan 300 ama 250 sanba .

Cilmi ahaan Macquul maaha in Dhulbahante iyo Mareexaan ama Ogaadeen iyo Maareexaan STR isku mid wadaa noqdo ,

In yar oo Xulufo ah qabiil kasta way ku jiraan waana arrin la wada ogyahay .

Tusaale : reerka Dhulbahante nimaan lagu soo daray baanu Ognahay oo hadda reero waaweyn noqday
( maanta iyaguna way iis Ogyihiin anaguna waanu Ognahay ) .

Walaahi Shaki igama jiro in aniga iyo General : Maslax Maxamed Siyaad Barre haddii lanaga qaado DNA test ,
Isku natiijo noqon doono aniga iyo Jeneraal Maslax ,,
( Reerka Daarood Ismaaciil 90% waa E-m35 kana sii ah E-V32 ) .

Laakin Reerkii wacanaa ee reer Sheekh Isxaaq shaki baa kala galay kkkkkkkkk Gaar baa reerka Dir kusoo laabtay ( Sida Garxajis iyo gayb habar Jeclo ah ) markii la ogaaday najiida DNA .

this is fact and it is going to become common knowledge in the next couple of years

[Jaamacbuuhoodle]

Dadka way inay fahmaan STR's ( Short tandem repeat )
way is badalaan 300 ama 250 sanba .

Cilmi ahaan Macquul maaha in Dhulbahante iyo Mareexaan ama Ogaadeen iyo Maareexaan STR isku mid wadaa noqdo ,

In yar oo Xulufo ah qabiil kasta way ku jiraan waana arrin la wada ogyahay .

Tusaale : reerka Dhulbahante nimaan lagu soo daray baanu Ognahay oo hadda reero waaweyn noqday
( maanta iyaguna way iis Ogyihiin anaguna waanu Ognahay ) .

Walaahi Shaki igama jiro in aniga iyo General : Maslax Maxamed Siyaad Barre haddii lanaga qaado DNA test ,
Isku natiijo noqon doono aniga iyo Jeneraal Maslax ,,
( Reerka Daarood Ismaaciil 90% waa E-m35 kana sii ah E-V32 ) .

Laakin Reerkii wacanaa ee reer Sheekh Isxaaq shaki baa kala galay kkkkkkkkk Gaar baa reerka Dir kusoo laabtay ( Sida Garxajis iyo gayb habar Jeclo ah ) markii la ogaaday najiida DNA .

Adeer adigiibaa is burinaya haday dadku is "badalaan 300 ama 250"
Sideed u sugtaa in HJ iyo HY isku mid u noqdaan ma qiyaasi kartaa inta boqol ee sanadood ee ka soo wareegtay SH. Isaxaaq.
Anigu ma aaminsani in Isaaqu yahay Dir, teeda kale Dirku ma reer layska galaa sida Daarodka iyo Hawiyaha.
Waxaan maqlay reero habeenkiina Daarod sheegta maalintiina Hawiye kolba dhinacay dabayshu la qabato lol

Maya imaad fahmin , waxaa iis badalaa waa STR kaliya , af Carabiga waxaa lagu yidhaada ( الماركرات ) .
Laakin ( سلالة ) sida E-V32 ama T waligii isma badalo ,

Arrimaha Cilmiga ah marka laga hadlayo Anigu luuqadaha Carabi iyo Farsi uun baan qoraalkooda professional ku ahay ,, sidaan af Somali kugu sharxo runtii garan maayo markaa Af Carabi baan ku soo qorayaa .

الماركرات لا يعتد بها كثيراً فهي ليست مقياس للتصنيف مثل التحورات، بسبب أن قيمة الماركر ليست دائماً ثاتبة وتتغير قيمتها إما تصاعدياً أو تنازلياً (أي أن طفرة جينية قد تحصل لأحد الفاحصين من نفس القبيلة ويظهر لديه قيمة مختلفة للماركر) فحدوث الطفرة الجينية عند أحد الفاحصين لا يعني أنه من قبيلة أخرى من المنظور الجيني

Reer Sheekh Isxaaq lafteesa waa la gala , reeraha Habar Jeclo iyo Habar Awal waxaa ka buuxa umaddii Nabi Maxamed oo dhan kkkkkkk
Qabiil kasta oo aduunka ka jiraa waa la gali jiray .

[Jaamacbuuhoodle]

Dadka way inay fahmaan STR's ( Short tandem repeat )
way is badalaan 300 ama 250 sanba .

Cilmi ahaan Macquul maaha in Dhulbahante iyo Mareexaan ama Ogaadeen iyo Maareexaan STR isku mid wadaa noqdo ,

In yar oo Xulufo ah qabiil kasta way ku jiraan waana arrin la wada ogyahay .

Tusaale : reerka Dhulbahante nimaan lagu soo daray baanu Ognahay oo hadda reero waaweyn noqday
( maanta iyaguna way iis Ogyihiin anaguna waanu Ognahay ) .

Walaahi Shaki igama jiro in aniga iyo General : Maslax Maxamed Siyaad Barre haddii lanaga qaado DNA test ,
Isku natiijo noqon doono aniga iyo Jeneraal Maslax ,,
( Reerka Daarood Ismaaciil 90% waa E-m35 kana sii ah E-V32 ) .

Laakin Reerkii wacanaa ee reer Sheekh Isxaaq shaki baa kala galay kkkkkkkkk Gaar baa reerka Dir kusoo laabtay ( Sida Garxajis iyo gayb habar Jeclo ah ) markii la ogaaday najiida DNA .

You make no sense.
For example in one sentence, you admit your own sub clan of Dhulbahnte has added outsiders who are now huge in numbers. Then just below you claim a Marexaan - it’s on record have added midgaans - will be, with 100% certainty, related to you.

If you know your own Dhulbahnte have outsiders amongst you, how can you be that certain about Marexaan.


Let’s even go along with this nonsense about a question mark being over Isaaq being Dir or not. It still doesn’t change the fact we Isaaq have always moved more like family than any Darods. If you look at the facts on the ground in today’s Somalia. Darod is not united as friends let alone family. What use is some blood relation going back 1000’s years if you can’t offer each other a bucket of water. What use is it trying to prove Isaaq is not related by blood, if the end result is we behave and act like family in unison? If we level Las anood tomorrow the Majreteen would not offer you a hospital for your wounded let alone fight alongside You. However, if Majerteeb level Cerigabo, the Sacad Muse in Gabiley would be at the frontline with in the first day..

Ninyahow Isaaq midaysan laguma arag Somalia 1991kii kadib , meesha nin kasta danahiisu wataa lolz

Isaaqa midaysan bal ii toos xagee bay ku noolyihiin ?