debate on Hishabelle power sharing

[Somalization]

Thank you Hiiraan!

I am going to give a more complete response later, but I just want to say ANYONE who values good governance and wants to fix the horrible mistakes made too hastily by the previous government which was nothing more than an extension of the Transitional period should be happy about this debate.

The fact that there is even a debate including the 1st Pres of Hirshabelle on a random "fadhi ku dirir" talk session is a reflection that something is very wrong with the deeply flawed process that began the formation of Federal States.

Remember that Somalilanders call all Italian Somalia "Walaweyn" because it took the small constituency of Walaweyn with its 10:1 Votes to Population ratio to show all of Somalia how deeply superficial the 60's "democracy" was.

HIiraan is the "Walaweyn" moment to another exercise in "democracy" that is about to veer off course.

It is Federalism's "Booli-Qaran" moment to bankrupt Somalia on austerity, it's "Haile Selassie's overfed pet lions" moment to hungry 70's Ethiopia, it is even " Marie Antoinette's hair obsession" moment to revolutionary France.

When something is so flawed, there is a moment when the bend is so lopsided, a crack is heard loud and clear.

This is that moment.

The way Somalia responds to this challenge will determine whether we should even bother anymore with the enterprise of instituting governnance of this forum since we will be back at square 0 inevitably.

It's very ironic that Ossoble is so devoid of self awareness he doesn't even realize how his very person is an argument against his clannish hunger.

Will clearly show this later

Voltage, As someone who seems like a person who has been on this site for very long/siyaasad i am very disappointed to hear you say this.

Very shameful for you to even compare something like that to the situation in Hiiraan. By your logic your making it seem like the North rejected union at first and was forced to do it.

Your making it seem like Farmaajo is a hero suddenly and is dismantling clan federalism. If you go back to the interview with President Cosoble you can hear him say "Gentlemans agreement is much more powerful" than the whole CONSTITUTION.

So in other words the reason why the 5 Somalis (excl Somaliland) is under one flag is because of that gentlemans agreement. The dastuur gets broken every now and then but Gentleman Agreement doesn't.

Osoble's point is very clear.

Until you see a Dhulbahante or a Leelkase as President of Puntland
Marexan and Murosade as President of Galmudug
then of course you will see Gaaljecel and Mudolood become President of Hirshabelle!

Either completely get rid of 4.5 at the same time - No state is gonna go ahead and do it first! We don't trust each other to that level.

I hope you are Pro-Federalism and not Pro-Centralism. Still disappointed in you a little bit.

[Ardentte]

^^
Somalization
That is not an intellectual argument its full of fallacies.

Voltage is being hypocrite he is too harsh on Hirshabelle while being soft on JL and SWS who both dont control their designated capitals Bucaale and Baraawe respectively. His home state has the worst power sharing where two clans that barely make 40% of the population have taken 80% of the regions seats. This has alienated the marginalised communities and is the reason why their capital is completely run by Al-Shabaab not even contested but compeletely run by terrorist who control 60% of JL.

Cali Cossoble is a failed politician who is mad cause he lost his precidency thanks to his incompetency what a baffoon. InshAllah men like him will never lead HirShabelle again. He will send us decades back with his devisive rhetoric, Waare is a statesman who has built instutions and respected rule of law, even though Waare has his flaws he is thousand times better than the guy who was being interviewd. Hope next president will do even more for this young state.

[Gubbet]

Ardentte I am being harsh on Hiiraan? I have not made my argument yet. I am still organizing it. Nothing I said above is actually above is directly about Hiiraan. Hiiraan just happens to be a facilitator. The "PROBLEM" is actually Puntland.

More than just the flaw from 1999, there are 5 IMPORTANT ARGUMENTS IN THEIR OWN ORIGINAL RIGHT THAT NEED TO BE DEFENDED DIRECTLY AS A RESULTNOF MR OSSOBLE'S DANGEROUS PROPOSITION

BTW it is a dangerous proposition because you will note that even in where the problem originates from (PUNTLAND) no one has ever attempted to publicly compel the anti-Democratic process nsd from a man who was leader!!!

Ossoble has NO CLUE JUST HOW INSURMOUNTABLY PROBLEMATIC HIS ARGUMENT WAS----

[Gubbet]

Thank you Hiiraan!

I am going to give a more complete response later, but I just want to say ANYONE who values good governance and wants to fix the horrible mistakes made too hastily by the previous government which was nothing more than an extension of the Transitional period should be happy about this debate.

The fact that there is even a debate including the 1st Pres of Hirshabelle on a random "fadhi ku dirir" talk session is a reflection that something is very wrong with the deeply flawed process that began the formation of Federal States.

Remember that Somalilanders call all Italian Somalia "Walaweyn" because it took the small constituency of Walaweyn with its 10:1 Votes to Population ratio to show all of Somalia how deeply superficial the 60's "democracy" was.

HIiraan is the "Walaweyn" moment to another exercise in "democracy" that is about to veer off course.

It is Federalism's "Booli-Qaran" moment to bankrupt Somalia on austerity, it's "Haile Selassie's overfed pet lions" moment to hungry 70's Ethiopia, it is even " Marie Antoinette's hair obsession" moment to revolutionary France.

When something is so flawed, there is a moment when the bend is so lopsided, a crack is heard loud and clear.

This is that moment.

The way Somalia responds to this challenge will determine whether we should even bother anymore with the enterprise of instituting governnance of this forum since we will be back at square 0 inevitably.

It's very ironic that Ossoble is so devoid of self awareness he doesn't even realize how his very person is an argument against his clannish hunger.

Will clearly show this later

Voltage, As someone who seems like a person who has been on this site for very long/siyaasad i am very disappointed to hear you say this.

Very shameful for you to even compare something like that to the situation in Hiiraan. By your logic your making it seem like the North rejected union at first and was forced to do it.

Your making it seem like Farmaajo is a hero suddenly and is dismantling clan federalism. If you go back to the interview with President Cosoble you can hear him say "Gentlemans agreement is much more powerful" than the whole CONSTITUTION.

So in other words the reason why the 5 Somalis (excl Somaliland) is under one flag is because of that gentlemans agreement. The dastuur gets broken every now and then but Gentleman Agreement doesn't.

Osoble's point is very clear.

Until you see a Dhulbahante or a Leelkase as President of Puntland
Marexan and Murosade as President of Galmudug
then of course you will see Gaaljecel and Mudolood become President of Hirshabelle!

Either completely get rid of 4.5 at the same time - No state is gonna go ahead and do it first! We don't trust each other to that level.

I hope you are Pro-Federalism and not Pro-Centralism. Still disappointed in you a little bit.

SIR i will answer my charge, but I want to say

The "constitution" is the CONTRACT (as in binding with signature from 100% of Somali community with world governments holding "power of attorney" to guarantee trust

A " Gentlemen's Agreement" is worth less than the human bodily fluids going down a drain.

Moreover, Sir, EVEN a subjective concept like personal "integrity" depends on whether it was EVEN LEGITIMATE for someone to speak for SOMEONE ELSE'S EQUITY

Did /Udeejeen/Harti/Mobileen/Gaaljecel/Makana/Shiidlel/Baadicadde/Jajeele, etc AUTHORIZE someone to make a promise on THEIR behalf?

I mean it is just ridiculous. REMIND ME AGAIN WHY PEOPLE SAID THEY FOUGHT AGAINST SIYAD BARRE?

SOMETHING ABOUT HAVING NO CHOICE OVER THEIR LIVES?

[BigBreak]

A certain clan family should always lead each of the regional states that makes up ex Italian Somalia in the name of stability and this should happen regardless of whether there is full democracy or not at the FMS level. Majerteen, Ogaden, Hawadle, Habar Gidir and Rahanwein should always have the presidency/leadership of Puntland, Jubaland, Hiirshabelle, Galmudug and Southwest respectively. I propose to my Abgaal brothers and sisters that they should form and forever rule an FMS that is composed of Banadir and Lower Shabelle.

Gedo should become part of SWS instead of JL as this would be beneficial to both ruling clans OG and RX

[Gubbet]

Big break, there is no purpose to logging in to a multi-nick and penning a superficial passive-aggressive block of text on my behalf.

Under Gubbet I will reply strictly on the merits and the merit tk your statement is-------------none.

I don't know if you were in hibernation, but the "physical" manifest of Somali Federalism is finished south of Gaalkacyo. Done, finito, no litigating, no community pettitioning, no even a cursory "are you not satisfied."

Sir, this is like saying, we took the test---yesterday. Today is about the fairness ot the rubric.

Is this concept still----overwhelming?

[BigBreak]

Ha You can talk about multinicking Gubbet aka Voltage aka The Republic. My opinion is valid as I never intended to present it as a fact or as a future prediction that WILL happen. Probably you should just admit that you didn't like what I had to say.....and to be honest I understand why