Iconic photo of Abdullahi Farmaajo, Pres. Farmaajo’s father & PM Abdullahi Ciise in their fight against Italian gumeysi!

[ReturnOfMariixmaan]

Gubbet, am I lying? As far as I'm concerned my clan wasn't a member of the MOD alliance, I don't claim to know everything so I might be misinformed on some things. But let's face it, only MJ/MX matter in Somalia regarding Darood.

Marixmaan, in hindsight it's insane to me how mistaken you guys were in bringing OG into Somalia, everything went to hell after their arrival. Only Mohamed Zubeir matter if we're talking about OG, makaahil and Cawliyaan can hold their own for sure, but looking at their record they're not exactly power projectors.

I don't share your pessimism about Somaliweyne, if it was realised there would be no need for this 4.5 nonsense.

Ogaden war was the stupidest war ever. And I admire MSB as a hometown legend. We were 17yrs out of independence and not built economically to take land in a conventional war. He should have covertly support the ethnic rebels and brought Kenya closer to isolate Ethiopia. At the first sign of internal decay - annexed Galbeed like Crimea like Putin did. But alas, the past is the past.

[nine]

Italy quite literally had a policy of 'Somaliweyne', meaning it wanted to unite all Somali ethnic territories into one state, the British also expressed some interest in this, until the Yanks came in and focked it up for us, if you want to blame someone blame them.

.

.

Nigga I have declassified CIA files showing the extent to which the Italians and the British had their agents in their ranks. Others have much worse unseemly deeds in the crates. The SYL is a good foundational myth like Santa Claus. It’s state sanctioned propaganda yes. But we also can’t discount the valiant efforts of some SYL patriots. Hence why I’m more moderate and lenient than I used to be when I was younger. There always be this divide between those who love the Kacaan and those who adore the SYL. And it’s okay to me.

That was in WW2 from Mussolini after that Mr Bevin wanted all of Somaliweyn to be one British colony but Truman and Stalin refused any Somalis chose Italy to administer the trusteeship which pissed off the Brits and might possibly be the reason they handed over Galbeed. SYL were overrated.

[ReturnOfMariixmaan]

Italy quite literally had a policy of 'Somaliweyne', meaning it wanted to unite all Somali ethnic territories into one state, the British also expressed some interest in this, until the Yanks came in and focked it up for us, if you want to blame someone blame them.

.

Nigga I have declassified CIA files showing the extent to which the Italians and the British had their agents in their ranks. Others have much worse unseemly deeds in the crates. The SYL is a good foundational myth like Santa Claus. It’s state sanctioned propaganda yes. But we also can’t discount the valiant efforts of some SYL patriots. Hence why I’m more moderate and lenient than I used to be when I was younger. There always be this divide between those who love the Kacaan and those who adore the SYL. And it’s okay to me.

That was in WW2 from Mussolini after that Mr Bevin wanted all of Somaliweyn to be one British colony but Truman and Stalin refused any Somalis chose Italy to administer the trusteeship which pissed off the Brits and might possibly be the reason they handed over Galbeed. SYL were overrated.

Yeah. SYL were ill educated even if they were educated. They choose sentiment not pragmatic self interest.

[Phinks]

Marixmaan, Barre made a sound decision in starting the war, why do people still say the war was a mistake when Ethiopia was ravaged by a ongoing civil war? All the military generals and commanders from every clan/division was in full support of the war. We never lost to Ethiopia, we lost to the Soviet Union. The mistake came after the war moving in OG refugees, that's when everything went to hell.

Nine, the reason the Soviets chose Ethiopia was because of Castro doing some heavy PR for them, upon finding out Somalia declaring war, he was furious because at the time he surmised Ethiopia was transforming into a state with a genuine Marxist ideology and foundation, Barre's insistence on Somalis never letting their religion go before the state & stating that Somalia was the Islamic fortress of East Africa further enraged him and Soviet officials.

[Gubbet]

Phinks, I don't like nor support how you always try to covertly throw Dhulbahante under the bus.

There is no Darood North abd Darood South, there is more like a .

1. Dhulbahante
   • Darood Power In Northwest
     • Warsangeli in this camp.
2. Majerteen
   • Darod Power in Northeast
     • Smaller Darod of Puntland in this Camp
3. Marehan
   • Darod Power in South Central
     • OG of Afmadow & Darod of Kismaayo in this camp

[nine]

Nine, the reason the Soviets chose Ethiopia was because of Castro doing some heavy PR for them, upon finding out Somalia declaring war, he was furious because at the time he surmised Ethiopia was transforming into a state with a genuine Marxist ideology and foundation, Barre's insistence on Somalis never letting their religion go before the state & stating that Somalia was the Islamic fortress of East Africa further enraged him and Soviet officials.

Spot on. SRSP (Somali Revolutionary Socialist Party) was mildly socialist with Islam as a state religion while the DERG was opposite and communist. Declaring state atheism or state seculariam in a Country like Somalia near Islamic heartlands was possible political suicide.
South Yemen was a Communist Soviet Union client state. The Soviet puppet government of Afghanistan in their last days they switched to Islamic Socialism butbwere still overthrown.

They didn't think the Eritrean rebellion would succeed and Castro wanted a 3 Country federation between South Yemen DERG and SRSP Barre and Mengistu locked horns neither would budge on DDSI.

Somalis were between a rock and a hard place. Jimmy Carter took a softer stance towards Communism and Christian Republicans wouldn't support an invasion of DDSI so Somalis couldn't do a switcharoo and play both powers like Arabs.

[Phinks]

Phinks, I don't like nor support how you always try to covertly throw Dhulbahante under the bus.

There is no Darood North abd Darood South, there is more like a .

1. Dhulbahante
   • Darood Power In Northwest
     • Warsangeli in this camp.
2. Majerteen
   • Darod Power in Northeast
     • Smaller Darod of Puntland in this Camp
3. Marehan
   • Darod Power in South Central
     • OG of Afmadow & Darod of Kismaayo in this camp

Gubbet, DH are my brothers, they've saved my ass countless times and have been there for me, DH can go to any gobol in Puntland and it's his home, no questions asked.

My reasoning goes like this:

1. Dhulbahante lost almost half their population supporting the Sayyid's war against colonial powers, this was a decision that still haunts them today.

2. As a result of declaring war alongside the Sayyid, severe ramifications occurred against Dhulbahante and Warsangeli with thousands perishing in battles against MJ. And this wasn't even all MJ, Umar Maxamuud and Bicidyahaan weren't on good terms with Cismaan Maxamuud, who DH and Warsans had to form a defence pact against.

3. Dhulbahante and Warsangeli are decent mid tier power projectors, they aren't as accomplished as MJ. Just look at MJ's civil war at the time between Hobyo and Majeerteeniya, MJ could afford to have a war encompassing a vast area from Bari, Nugaal, Mudug, Galbeed reaching all the way to Hobyo, El-Bur and Dhuusomareeb, to my knowledge DH haven't managed to achieve this feat, feel free to correct me.

By 2030-40, I believe Dhulbahante numbers will catch up to us and instead of a trifecta of landheers, Darood will have a QUADFECTA, OG/MX/DH/MJ, and that's when things will get interesting.

[Phinks]

Nine, the reason the Soviets chose Ethiopia was because of Castro doing some heavy PR for them, upon finding out Somalia declaring war, he was furious because at the time he surmised Ethiopia was transforming into a state with a genuine Marxist ideology and foundation, Barre's insistence on Somalis never letting their religion go before the state & stating that Somalia was the Islamic fortress of East Africa further enraged him and Soviet officials.

Spot on. SRSP (Somali Revolutionary Socialist Party) was mildly socialist with Islam as a state religion while the DERG was opposite and communist. Declaring state atheism or state seculariam in a Country like Somalia near Islamic heartlands was possible political suicide.
South Yemen was a Communist Soviet Union client state. The Soviet puppet government of Afghanistan in their last days they switched to Islamic Socialism butbwere still overthrown.

They didn't think the Eritrean rebellion would succeed and Castro wanted a 3 Country federation between South Yemen DERG and SRSP Barre and Mengistu locked horns neither would budge on DDSI.

Somalis were between a rock and a hard place. Jimmy Carter took a softer stance towards Communism and Christian Republicans wouldn't support an invasion of DDSI so Somalis couldn't do a switcharoo and play both powers like Arabs.

You know your stuff sxb.

This was back then when we mattered, that's what gets me about all this. We were a state exercising our sovereignty and pitting global powers against each other, now we've been reduced to clan x vs clan y.

[nine]

Phinks

If only the army wasn't disbanded by Ina Carte which made anarchy.

[Gubbet]

Phinks

If only the army wasn't disbanded by Ina Carte which made anarchy.

Is this boy serious?

Adeer, take those little feel good stories and chuck it out the window.

It's one of those cutsy things we say to each other in polite society but we sure as hell know what was supposed to happen was BLOOD WRITTEN.

[nine]

Phinks

If only the army wasn't disbanded by Ina Carte which made anarchy.

Is this boy serious?

Adeer, take those little feel good stories and chuck it out the window.

It's one of those cutsy things we say to each other in polite society but we sure as hell know what was supposed to happen was BLOOD WRITTEN.

Ina Adeer Somalis were gonna karbaash each other anyway with or without dawladnimo.

[NGM]

AUN to these halyeys. NGM or Gubbet do tell us the taarikh of this photo. Never knew this:

AUN Abdullahi Farmaajo the father of President Mohamed Abdullahi Farmaajo

Abdullahi Mohamed Diirshe Shiil Cabdille Alamagan Dalal, known as Farmaajo, was imprisoned during the Italian administered UN trusteeship or AFIS by Giovanni Fornari the first governor of the trusteeship, he was imprisoned for staging the first SYL anti-AFIS protest in Mogadishu in 1950, the people we commemorate were ideologically from a wing of SYL which wanted to hasten the independence and was extremely anti-colonial, they are the ones staging protest, writing petitions etc using the geopolitics at the time and riding the anti-facsist sentiment in the world at the time, they are the godfathers of NGM, AUN many truly nationalist among that camp of SYL were killed or imprisoned from 1950-1960 AUN to all of them.

This is not a dig at others, AUN to all of SYL, they were able to compromise and put their differences aside to at least achieve independence and prevent the alternative which was extension of the trusteeship, despite being different ideologically, AUN to all of them, but I pay huge respect to my ideological ancestors AUN to Sh Ali Jimcaale, AUN to Adan Low, AUN to Abdulahi Issa etc.

RoM I like your interest in pre-kacaan, that is perhaps when the paradigm we are on now was established despite being interrupted by 2 decades of socialism and 3 decades of barbaric civil war and anarchy.

you should learn this era to understand Somali federal politics.

Voltage Adan Low fought Habeshi empire expanding into our territory using Italian empire, he has never done favours for fascists he even fought fascist, so to put it simply you are yet again wrong ! and not understanding geopolitics. History you study is written by victors history I study is in my freaking blood.

The thing about me is. I appreciate all periods of Sade glory. I don’t like to play favorites with taarikh. Did you know while Adan Loow was fighting the British in Ximan and Abdullahi Farmaajo was in Xamar fighting for our freedom; there was a Somali insurgency led by the Jeegir Shuftos which controlled from Nageyle til Gedo, they was fighting the British empire and the Ethiopian empire at the same time, bringing them to a diplomatic row! This conflict brought Libaan to our land holdings. The equestrian class is here to add land and conquer. Sentiment means nothing to men of action. Secondly, there was full on resistance in Jubaland in the early 1900s led by my forefathers which led to the consolidation of our position as led to the sale of Jubaland to Italy and adding our lands to Somalia proper and the deed of ownership. Sade history needs to looked as a connective tissue instead of separate regional or jiffo history. Our history should be studied and valued as a whole not pieces which make us uncomfortable. You run away from the darkness Naturo, I love it lmao. At the same time, I have my critiques of SYL. I don’t doubt their contribution to Somali freedom and independence. None at all, they are halyeys. But their failures allowed the state to decay due to their elite social compact and be taken over by the Equestrian class and in particular the Praetorian Guards. While the civilian leadership or patrician class fought and brought statehood and brought intellectual maturity to the halgan of the Darawiish and the Sayid. They failed when they centralized power and were unloved by the masses - this lead to a rose of a Caesar (MSB) who centralized it even further. While I agree with you in principle. Statehood won’t come until the elites of country are checked not to repeat the mistakes of SYL which which were corruption and letting foreigners have say in our affairs i.e. Arusha Records which angered the Equestrian class. This societal divide wasn’t based on clan btw! You eloquently stated the failures of the Kacaan and I agree on most points. But SYL wasn’t perfect either. One can’t look at the failure of the Kacaan without doing the same with SYL. The new generation has to let go of sentiment and look at all the facts without emotions or attachments to come to a true cure! I appreciate both perspectives of both the Kacaan sympathizers and the SYL loyalists. I propose a middle way. That is the true pragmatism!

Yes I read little about Jeegir, and it turned out to be very interesting and informative, my enemy's enemy is my friend, exactly what Adan Low did in the Italo-Abyssinian war.

horta do not take him for a soft liberal bureaucrat, Adan Low was the highest honored Somali Italian soldier who fought in multiple wars both in and outside of the country, he was among the earliest if not the first Somali to address the UN-League of nations, during the Italo-Abyssinian war putting our interest first before the world, he was not liberal but progressive indeed, he dragged MX elders into the 21st century my great grandfather and indeed most of our great grandfathers and/or grandfathers were against nation state and believed it to be a Kufr, so he dragged them into the 21st century literally sidaa aduunka la jaanqaadno, he was what we needed and to some degree desperately need now, he also had huge influence outside of MX as one of the most likely to be President Somalia in 1968. Siad Barre did not make himself, he is not self made man, he was literally raised by Adan Low, unfortunately he was so emboldened by his power as general and he ended up imprisoning his own teacher in one of the worst jails in Somalia where he left him to die.

That's like you throwing Voltage into Guantanamo

Anyway this thread made me realise you are definitely not Kacaanist as I thought, you have your eyes on the price if you looking into Jeegir, Adan Low, Abdulahi Farmaajo etc basically pre-Kacaan MX history. You should not be like me anti-Kacaan but study and learn from all that way you will be balanced.

[NGM]

RoM this is political message directed at Kacaanist that I have said on this very forum for years, waxaan ahay dhashii SYL

[Gubbet]

Phinks

If only the army wasn't disbanded by Ina Carte which made anarchy.

Is this boy serious?

Adeer, take those little feel good stories and chuck it out the window.

It's one of those cutsy things we say to each other in polite society but we sure as hell know what was supposed to happen was BLOOD WRITTEN.

Ina Adeer Somalis were gonna karbaash each other anyway with or without dawladnimo.

Wallahi Union, the day I came to that realization, the whole charade, fake nationalism, Kowda Luulyo, "" Hantiyeey macaan, waa midaan" (right lyrics?), it all disapparated like a mirage in the desert.

4.5 is the realist Somali owned proceas we have ever had. We didn't have one before it and we won't be restarting again.

Conversely it means two truths I have firmly internalized.

1. EVERYTHING BEFORE IT WAS DESTINED TO COME TO 0; ALL OF IT THE KACAAN, THE 60'S, COLONIALISM----IT WAS ALL BANDAGES OVER A GANGRENE INFESTED WOUND. IT WAS GOING TO BE RIPPED OUT ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

2. WE WILL NEVER GET RID OF 4.5. IF THEY TELL YOU 1 MAN/1 VOTE LIKR THE WORLD, THEY ARE LYING. IN THE END IT WILL BE 1 MAN/1 VOTE WITHIN CLAN PORTIONS. SOMALIA WILL NEVER HAVE A FULLY DEMOCRATIC SYSTEM BECAUSE NO CLAN WILL ALLOW BEING OUTSIDE OF REPRESENTATION. 4.5 WILL BE CODIFIED.

And if they dare remove 4.5, then kiss Somalia good bye.

Another 1991 will be as guaranteed as the sun rising from the east and setting on thr west.

[Gubbet]

That's like you throwing Voltage into Guantanamo

Notice the ironclad brotherhood, mutual respect, and streength of the friendship between Saddam and I huh, Murax as well.

It is unfortunate. I tried.