Russia Vs the West

[Mowhawk]

[quote="LionHeart-112"]Where did i mention arabs?

So basically this whole problem stems from the fact taht you hate arabs?[/quote]

No, this whole discussion stems when people like you are challenged to prove who is worse Israel's treatment of Palestinians, or Russia's treatment of Chechnayans, and why all the Arab world has closer ties with Russia and their media are anit-west and not anti-Russia?

So you hate other Muslim causes and equate all Arab causes as Islamic?

[LionHeart-112]

First of all, you need to cool-off and calm down. The Palestinian issue gets more coverage and alot of people are passionate about it for more reasons that just becauset hey are arabs. First of all, Chechnya has become an issue since the fall of U.S.S.R in the early 90's whilet he Palestinian issue has been at the forefront of all Muslim issue for almost 60 years. Secondly, Al-quds is not just any land, it's Islamic Holy Land which happened to be in arab land. And third, what's your obsession with chechens? They aren't the only muslims suffering here. What about the Kashmiris? The ogadeens? The filipinos? The burmese?

Arab issue become Islamic issues for 2 reasons. 1) The overwhelming majority of arabs are Muslims. 2) Islam's birthplace happens to be the birthplace of Arabs. The majority of Islamic institutions and schools are in arab lands so whatever happens in places like Saudi Arabia and Egypt and AL-Quds affects the entire Sunni muslim world.


I really didn't know take you for the anti-arabs muslim type. Sadly dissappointed in you walle. If you want to blame some1 for the lack of discussion of the Chechen issues, blame the media.

[Mowhawk]

You haven't asnwered the question. Why do the West get ridiculed when the Russians are uprooting a whole Muslim country? Why are the Arabs friendly with the Russians when they bribe others not to establish relations with Israel? Is Iraq a holly place, every Somali brainwashed by Arabs thinks it is a Muslim cause, and don't register the Chechnayans at all because of Arab propganda. Will you like to live in Russia?

If it is the perception of the media as you eloquently put it, then am challenging it, and what is bothering you?

[LionHeart-112]

Why the arabs do what they do, you will have to ask them.

Who deosn't see the Chechen problem as a Muslim cause? Every time an Imaam makes ducaa for the muslim who are suffering Chechnya (pronouched Sheeshaan in arabic) is always lumped with Filistin and Kishmiir. Maybe u need to open your ears during khutba instead of letting your hate for arabs distract you from teh sermons.

The west gets ridiculed because they are doing in every corner of the world, wherever there are Muslims while the Russia is opressing only the Muslims in their backyard. Chechnya has always been part of Russia. It was not like palestine which was under Muslim rule for over 1300 years and then invaded by Jews. The West is attacking muslims on every corner of the world and has an agenda to destroy Islam under the guise of "war on terror." Russia has no such agenda. They can barely feed their people.

[The rebel]

Mowhawk

What do you have against Palestine?

[gurey25]

Rebel and Lionheart.

Mowhawk doesnt have anything against Palestine.
He is simply puting this in prespective.

Russia kills 100,000+ muslim chenians,
Routinley tortures, gang rapes women and men.
Turned the country into a hell hole.

Compare that to isreal, and the Isrealis look like angels.


yet Palestine is the attention of the world, and not chechnya.
Why is that.

and what about the uighurs in Xingyian, Gods knows what the chinese are upto, becuase they have been very good at suppressing information.
We only hear of rumours, nothing is substantiated.

[Mowhawk]

Rebel

I have nothing against Palestine and I wish them success. I was using it as analogy to the Chechnayan conflict.

As Gurey explained above, Arab nationalist causes are viewed as Holly, while other Muslims are considered as expendable, why? I just watched a documentary about Chechnaya and what happened there is genocide, and most people are led to believe that the west is against Islam, because of their involvement in Iraq. Why not Russia too?

[The Law26]

Mohawk

Listen my naive mate, no Muslim gives a damn shit about another and that is the reality of Muslims. If you go to a mosque with an Arab Imaam, it is natural for him to discuss Arab nationalism and elevate it to a Holly Cause, the same with Pakistani or Indian Imaams to the Kashmiri cause, or a Somali Imaam to the Somali conflict. Arabs vary and are very powerful, and it is only natural that they would publicise their cause. If you are Chechniyan, Phillipino, Chinese or Thai Muslim, you are all alone to fend for yourself. However, you got a point, there are those who are brainwashed by wahabism and run arround like a headless chicken with Arab nationalist causes with an Islamic edict. They are hypocrites.

[karkaar]

good point mohawk,

I always wondered why we couldn't do any buss with the israelis when other arabs say like moroco, tunisia, egypt and many others have close trade ties with them.... I was even told once that if we didn't severed our relation with the isralis that we were going to be sanctioned by arabs.... What a ridiclous idea...Fockers are already sanctioning our live stock and bringing livestocks from australia which is thousands of miles away when we're right around the corner and could bring it for cheap price.

[LionHeart-112]

The Law26 & Gurey...

We know and agree with everything you say but this is not the point mowhawk is raising here. If he is, then he is doing it in a wrong way. He is comparing the evils of the west and that of russia. Or at least that's why i thought this discussion was about.Seriously, are you gonna tell me that what the west has done is less than what the russians are doing to the chechens only? Oh come on.

As far as i knew, this was not an arab issue. Look at the title of thsi thread. I thought this discussion was about the evils the russians are commiting against the chechens versus the west's atrocities in teh muslim world...HELLOOOOOOOOOOOO...

So many people will start arab bashing because tehy have had a bad run in with an arab preacher or whatever..Let's stick to the issues here..

Mowhawk..PERHAPS, YOU NEED TO RECONSIDER TEH TITLE OF YOUR THREAD and come right out and ask people what you really have in mind. Don't ask about the west and russia first and then turn around and make this about Chechens versus arab thing.

[Mowhawk]

LionHeart

I don’t hate no nationality, but we are discussing a double standard by most Muslims.

Muslims are silent on the Chechnayan holocaust and give too much emphasis only to Arab issues. Why are the Muslim countries cajoling relationships with the Russians given to what they did to the Chechnayans? Isn’t that tantamount to a Muslim country establishing a relationship with Israel? We are bombarded with Western hate because of their involvement in the Middle East, and ignore Russia’s holocaust of the Chechnayans. One ethnically cleansed a whole Muslim nation and committed modern day genocide, while the other didn’t in that kind of scale.

Who is the bigger evil, Russia, or the West?

[The Law26]

Lion

How did you know I didn't understand Mohawk's point? Both of you are missing a BIG POINT.

Islam never recognised nation-states. Our prophet pbuh only preached One Ummah, and not the concept of nation-states, or nationalism. This is a nation-state issue between the Palestinians and the Israelis and is secular in nature. It deals with land being taken from the Palestinians post WW2. Their conflict centers on a modern day western invented concept called nation-state, and has nothing to do with Islam. People bought it a religious issue because it has been successfully marketed that way. Ask George Habash and Hannan Ashrawi who are fighghting for their liberty like most Muslim Palestinians.

Being a national interest, that is why Muslims whether Arabs or not, would only consider their own interests. If Russia could help the Palestinian cause, then the Arab nationalists will welcome the Russians in open arms and ignore the Chechniyan cause. Blame the weaknesses of the Muslims and not the West or Russia.

[The rebel]

Mowhawk

When Afghanistan was invaded by Soviet, the Arab and the Islamic Conference didn't have the gumption to name the aggressor, they passed resolutions. They supported their fellow Muslims by money and souls( you heard Arab Afghan). However, to compare any other suffering with Palestine's one that is wrong. This is our age old case. I admit that isn’t for us not only Islamic case to feel for them more than other case and to help them, but it’s also an Arab vs Israel. Don’t you know the wars we went against Israel? Well, we lost most of them but Palestine case is in the heart of every Arab Muslim, Christian, or pagan. This is our #1 case “A Muslim and Arab case”. So it’s normal we feel it directly because it’s closer to the home and hearts of 300 millions of Arabs. This isn't good arguement for you to show our hypocrisy brother Mowhawk.

If you wanted to show how Arab and Muslims are hypocrisys, you should use Darfur ; that what I call really completely embarrassment for Arab regime and Muslims . They knew the genocide took place there and they were silent from it.

[Mowhawk]

Rebel

" Well, we lost most of them but Palestine case is in the heart of every Arab Muslim, Christian, or pagan."

You and Law summed it up that the Palestinian cause is an Arab national cause. We were raised it to belive it to be a Muslim cause, and I still do see it that way. Can you understand my frustrations when other Muslims deal with Russia as a friend, or accuse the West as a bigger evil than Russia? I do know that many conscientitious non-Arab Muslims like George Gallaway support the Palestinan cause. I hope they gain their liberty soon.

Since you started the Darfur "hypocrisy", a topic that we discussed it here some two years ago, and most here dismissed it as an American conspiracy. Why did you think the Muslims media and leaders are silent of the "genocide" in Darfur?

[The rebel]

I completely understand your frustration. However Palentine is Arabian and Muslim Land. So, isn't wrong to call it Muslim case too.

Darfur? hmm Fama adraka be Darfur Anyway, since it's 2 years old event for you. I let you continue with your topic, and bring that topic please. I want to read what people thought about it.