Nuclear Mid-East

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

Fagash
Not only did you drive "Puppets" out of your country, you drove a fair amount of normal citizens too.

[Mowhawk]

Cawar

This what I said earlier on those pages. Iran will be armed with nuclear weapons not against Israel, but against it's Arab neighbours who it thinks as an enemy, and waged a horrendus war aginst them in the 1980's with the help of the western world. If the Iraqi Sunni-Shia war continues to get worse, it will spiral to the Arab world, and Shia's all over the Islamic world would be looking to Iran's protection. See the GCC cautionary communiqué on the same meeting about Shia-Sunni divission, and how they are worried. As I said earlier, Iran will be armed and so will be Saudi Arabia. If the Israelis attack Syria with nuclear weapons, I dont think Iran and Saudi Arabia as a nuclear armed nationas will come to their assistance.

[gurey25]

Mowhawk sorry but i cant help laughing.
I see you bought into the Saudi facsade.

Saudi Arabia isnt worth shit.
Whenever They face an obstacle they just throw money at it.


Saudi arabia unlike its nieghbours, cannot defend it self.
A quick glance at its millitary will make it appear like a credible power.
F-15, Tornadoes, the latest tanks and Missles systems, they go on these big shopping trips to create an image and to bail out western arma manufacturers.

The reality is the Saudi's do not have enough trained pilots or tankers to operate even half of the stuff they have.
and they are not permitted to use Pakistanis on loan anymore , due to the Pakis constantly stealing the latest Software and upgrades .

ITs been a policy since the 50's to never give the army any teeth and to rely on the gaurentee of the United states.
This is why the millitary never attempted a coup, and there have been several rebellions but none succesfull.

They use the National Gaurd, which are basically tribal levies straight from the bush, to keep an eye on their own army.


This is why Saudia with apopulation of around 20 million cannot protect itself from Oman of 2 million, and UAE of 4 million , and this is why Jordan can easily invade and take over if they are allowed by the West.

With Iraq out of the Way, Pakistan neutralized by India, Iran has no Sunni Rivals except for maybe Turkey, and IRan is already today one of the Powerbrokers of the Middle east.

[fagash_killer]

With Iraq out of the Way, Pakistan neutralized by India, Iran has no Sunni Rivals except for maybe Turkey, and IRan is already today one of the Powerbrokers of the Middle east.

turkey and iran share the same interests and that are the kurds both dont want to see the kurds recognised by the west although turkey shares good relationship with eu mideast esp israel and america. and thats why ahmadiNejad visited turkey and the first men he met was Tayyip Erdoğan probally just like lebanon wants iran a goverment change in turkey

[Mowhawk]

Gurey

Bro, I know in theory, the Saudis are not capable establishing a nuclear program on their own because of the skills limitations, and unlike the stable democratic Iranian system (arguably), the implications and crisis it may cause if the corrupt regime is overthrown. But we are talking here about a khaliiji bomb if the Iranians succeed, which they will in my humble opinion. Whether the Americans station nuclear warheads on their countries, or the bomb built in a more stable Gulf country other than Saudi Arabia, the age of Nuclear Weapons arrived in the Middle East. Furthermore, A. Q. Khan, the chief architect of the Pakistani bomb, his blueprint of enriching uranuim is available to all of them.

Did you see Uhud Olmert's flip about the Israeli bomb? This man reminds me of George W Bush.

[gurey25]

Mowhawk...

all im saying is that a khaliiji arab bomb is as far fetched as a somali bomb.

The saudis cannot defend themselves how will, do other things.?

Olmert is a more educated version of Bush

[Cawar]

"Olmert is a more educated version of Bush "

In terms of Ideology i would say Sharon fits that description..but Olmert has his weaknesses and mishaps evry now and then.

[gurey25]

Do not compare Sharon to Bush.

Sharon was very intelligent, a brilliant millitary leader.
infact the defeat of Egypt in the 73 october war was because of him.

[Cawar]

I said in terms of Ideology....D'aaah..

BTW...Egypt's defeat in 73 is controversial, eventhough they lost some land..

[Mowhawk]

Gurey

Desperate times demand desperate solutions, Iran with nuclear weapons is viewed as the biggest threat to the Gulf countries including Jordan and Egypt. Turkey included. I respect your analysis but getting the bomb is a serious national-interest priority issue for all. Did you hear the recent (just read on Sharq al awsat) Saudi threats to get involved in the Sunni-Shia war in Iraq on behalf of the Sunnis, if other regional powers get involved on behalf of the Shias? Olmert, should have been quiet as George Bush single handedly achieved his objectives (maybe by default) to turn Muslims against each other. I thought G.W was educated. Was it Princeton?

I watched a show about Uhud and his family, his wife and son vote for Labour and were against his political views. Google if you want. If they think he is a jerk and dont vote for him, no argument Bro.

[gurey25]

[quote="Cawar"]I said in terms of Ideology....D'aaah..

BTW...Egypt's defeat in 73 is controversial, eventhough they lost some land..[/quote]

contreversial ?
Oh my god Cawar did you live in Egypt before your flight to the US.
People have been brainwashed by all the propoganda to actually believe they won the war.


I was in a cairo university cafe when i stupidly suggested that Egypt not only lost, but lost badly in the war.


Wallahi i nearly started a riot, i was scared for my life.

Even when presenting to them several books, Magazines , and Newspapers archives from 73, from various sources.

They dismissed it as a CIA Plot.

Mind you these are intelligent young people in thier 20's.

[muslim-man]

Gurey,

The same way the Egyptians have been brainwashed in to believing that they are the children of the Pharaoh. I lived in Egypt back in the early 90s, Al-Qaahira>Al-Micaadi>Al Diglah!

[Cawar]

Gurey

What has me living in egypt got to do with the facts???

There was a big diff. between the 67 war and that of 73....at least in terms of public perception..just like the most recent war between Isreal and Hezbollah in which Isreal has inflicted more damage on Lebanon for sure but didnt win the war...

Here is an exceprt..


The Yom Kippur War, Ramadan War or October War י, also known as the 1973 Arab-Israeli War and the Fourth Arab-Israeli War, was fought from October 6 to October 26, 1973, between Israel and a coalition of Arab nations led by Egypt and Syria. The war began on the Jewish holiday of Yom Kippur with a surprise joint attack by Egypt and Syria crossing the cease-fire lines in the Sinai and Golan Heights, respectively, which had been captured by Israel in 1967 during the Six-Day War.[4]

The Egyptians and Syrians advanced during the first 24–48 hours, after which momentum began to swing in Israel's favor. By the second week of the war, the Syrians had been pushed entirely out of the Golan Heights. In the Sinai to the south, the Israelis struck at the "seam" between two invading Egyptian armies, crossed the Suez Canal (where the old ceasefire line had been), and cut off an entire Egyptian army just as a United Nations cease-fire came into effect.

The war had far-reaching implications for many nations. The Arab world, which had been humiliated by the lopsided defeat of the Egyptian-Syrian-Jordanian alliance during the Six-Day War, felt psychologically vindicated by its string of victories early in the conflict. This vindication paved the way for the peace process that followed, as well as liberalizations such as Egypt's infitah policy. The Camp David Accords, which came soon after, led to normalized relations between Egypt and Israel—the first time any Arab country had recognized the Israeli state. Egypt, which had already been drifting away from the Soviet Union, then left the Soviet sphere of influence almost entirely.

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

Cawar
The Arab defeat in the 73 war was a clear cut defeat - however, for a few days, it really looked like the Syrians might break through and reach Tel Aviv. The Egyptians managed to cross the Suez, but they didn't get far. But the Syrian attack was dangerous.

Three things came out of the 73 war:

a. Peace between Egypt and Israel. The first meaningful land for peace deal in the middle east.

b. Israeli conviction that without a concrete peace treaty, the West Bank and Golan could never be ceded to Arabs (and given the geograghy and religious convictions, some Israelis said never should be ceded).

c. The death of Sadat, which convinced many Arab leaders like Arafat that making peace with Israel meant death at the hands of militants.

[Mowhawk]

Cawar

You and Gurey are right. Let me give you my couch opinions sources fron some Egyptians who convinced me to believe. In 73, the Arabs were humiliated not only by the Israelis, but Sadat was personally humiliated by the Russians-Soviets. That is when the jargon "with Egypt, there is no war, and without Syria, there is no peace" developed.

That was the view at the time based on the Camp David Accords.